To athiests: how do you know love is real?

notthecolorblue · 20 days

don't hurt me

notthecolorblue · 20 days

Haven't they discovered that religious experiences/experiences of God affect a part of the brain too? I believe they have.

Religion and therefore God can't be studied, examined, and understood? Then I've got the wrong major! [Religious Studies]

notthecolorblue · 20 days

So, as concepts love is not like God? or as things in our world love is not like God? Please unpack your statement.

GoldenTaint · 20 days

Okay, that's valid enough :)

getjustin · 21 days

Polka.

SMEGMA_VON_SEMENFART · 22 days

I think the various doctrines on predestination might have addressed this issue some. If I werent in a phone I'd look it up but some reading on wikipedia couldn't hurt :)

BatmanHamster · 22 days

Im thinking some social scientist or similar person at some university somewhere has already done research about this subject, if you wanted to find some scholarly research or data are you interested in accessing the online articles and such that you could print, available through georgia state university or rochester christian colleges libraries? I could probably let you borrow my log in for a period to do research. Message me if so!

GoldenTaint · 22 days

That's awesome, particularly that you and I have similar perspectives, just in reverse un a way. I shouldn't have assumed to know the perspective from which you were coming from that's for sure.

One thing I've learned from studying this stuff (I'm pursuing a degree in religion) is that no one really truly knows what they're talking about, on a certain level.

Thank you for some respectful responses and an intetesting conversation!

If you don't mind me asking, how would you say Muslims feel about Christianity as a religion in general? How does your family feel about the changes that have taken place with your personal religion?

iamthenarwhalrus · 23 days

I can never hear enough of stories like this.

GoldenTaint · 23 days

Did your parents put you through things you considered sh*t at the time? Take away a car? Ground you? etc?

GoldenTaint · 23 days

Why would we require that? I certainly don't. No suffering necessary whatsoever to be closer to the positive attributes of Yahweh. The whole genocidal maniac parts kinda throw that under the bus, of course.

It's Irenaeanus' idea... the suffering thing as an explanation for the existence of good and evil in our world. Read some of John Hick's writing on it [a college library could def find it] It makes sense to me.

Would you beat your children unmercifully in order for them to love you?

Certianly human fathers have disciplined children in harmful ways. I might not know why I'm standing in the corner at 2 years old because I cannot fathom what I did wrong, but my Father knew what I did and was trying to correct me. But seriously, I cannot solve the problem of good and evil, and I can't defend the Irenaean theodicy any better than any other solution to it. All explanations of the existence of evil in our world when holding that our world is ruled by the Christian God have holes, at least all the ones that I have looked into. Some just do a better job than others imho.

GoldenTaint · 23 days

Should emotions be off of limits as a form of communication from a diety?

GoldenTaint · 23 days

TL/DR essentially: you're not off about anything, we just have different point of views. ha!

GoldenTaint · 23 days

"As soon as they are praying" is not necessarily correct, an experience of God could happen in a parking lot. It's not necessarily situational or based upon actions. God is potentially everywhere, personally I spent a month in county jail and even encountered Him there. Jail is a very cold, hard, potentially hellish environment indeed. It isn't church or the grand canyon obviously.

Also I wouldn't have used the normative language "claim" suggesting that such experiences are not of God. Assuming I'm correct in believing that we hold different views, mine being that of a theist, then I would disagree with you about that, naturally!

I was agreeing about the categorization, though, primarily because I am formerly agnostic and can recall my thought process then. Certainly if one does not believe in God they do not have the category of "god" in which to place things. As an agnostic it was like I was color blind and saw in black and white, as a theist I see life is in color. [lame analogy but none fit it]

Additionally, if I have an experience of God I don't necessarily feel it's my own feeling. The experience itself can tell me that, yes, it is God. That's how I stopped being agnostic in the first place. The experience was undeniable proof to me of the existence of God. But yes, there is a difference of categorization.

notthecolorblue · 23 days

Lets start a new inquisition! /end sarcasm

GoldenTaint · 26 days

putting that rant aside, I feel that sin, suffering, and evil exist in our world to draw us closer to God. So yeah, he could be responsible. Something like the irenaean theodicy.

GoldenTaint · 26 days

You're assuming I go completely by the book I think. What I personally do when my personal beliefs contradict the Bible is that I do research and spend time in study and decide how I should interpret something, and then I still might personally disagree. This is an area I have yet to study. I try not to buy in to what I'm told without commiting time and thought to these important things. My belief in the Bible and God is one of searching for the truth. My truth may be different than someone elses, and currently I'm okay with it contradicting my religions text. If I die I hope (believe) God understands and has grace for it.

mrwiseman · 26 days

I generally deal with the existence of other religions by nearing a sort of Christain universalism (meaning our Christian God has grace and understanding for people of other faiths and they arent damned to hell only because of their beliefs).... But theres no way for me to know that and it's not Biblical so I would say its a hope, nearing on a belief, that I hold in my heart.

DaystarEld · 26 days

I feel that someone first has to be open to and want to have a spiritual experience (an experience of God), but then God has to make a move on His (i say his but also mean she/it) part. In Christianity the scriptures say "seek and you will find", it never says how long one might have to seek, or that passage might not be related to seeking God at all, ha.

Personally, I had an experience where I feel God proved his existence to me. So in a way I'd say I may have been chosen. ( I dont like that choice of words, but they are used in order to answer your question)

GoldenTaint · 26 days

It certainly is possible he is not all good. Do I believe that to be so: no. Do I realize it's possible: yep!

GoldenTaint · 26 days

That's a pretty accurate description, to a point. Though I disagree with what you said, it certainly is an issue of categorization. I am formerly agnostic and that certainly seems to be part of it.

GoldenTaint · 26 days

I usually believe it's God because the feeling confirms that, yes, it is God. If you're interested in spiritual/religious experiences, experiences of God, secular universities and various scholars have been studying them for over a hundred years. There's some really interesting stuff written on them!

GoldenTaint · 26 days

Certainly possible.

GoldenTaint · 26 days

Okay, now I'm off of my phone and on a real computer so here's my opinion [not for dsizzler or OceanSpray, haha]:

The Jews were the chosen and loved people of God in the old testament. All people are the chosen and loved people since the coming to Jesus Christ. Thus we have an explanation for some of the differences in the personality of God as we are shown it to be through his actions etc in the Bible. In the books of Joshua and Judges, as I remember, a lot of the killing happens to non-jews. As much as God did kill people it was to fulfill his promise to his chosen and loved people that they have a land of their own. Since ALL people are his chosen and loved people now I doubt he would do some of the same things in our time.

Aside from this (and again, in my opinion), religious texts are products of their time and the books of the Old Testament were written [going off of memory] 2,000 or so years before the books of the new testament. Thus they have the stamp of their society, culture, etc on them. It seems that, historically, the time of the OT had more war and violence than the time of the NT. Thus, more violence in the OT.

So, if God told me to attack a city/sacrifice my child/marry my cousin now would I believe Him and do it? Possibly but ONLY if He came to my in the form of an angel or a face-to-face interaction in a way in which I could not argue with the fact that it was Him telling me to do it. I would never simply "think" or "feel" that I should do something I know to be morally wrong, attribute it to God, and do it. Thusly, on the level of interaction with God that most people have today, no one sane is likely to commit acts similar to those of the OT. In my opinion, God doesn't speak out of burning bushes anymore, angels [arguably] don't show up. Prophecies aren't made, healing by the laying on of hands, and speaking in tongues no longer happens, these are gifts of the spirit that no longer manifest themselves [unless you are Charismatic or similar]. As humans have progressed our response to God has progressed. As society changes our religions change. Scripture may be static, but interpretation of scripture changes over time. Religion is in movement. We can see this in the history of the last 100 years, AND in the differences between the OT and NT.

PS. I won't concede sh*t! ;)

notthecolorblue

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