So, how many years does Greece deserve to be punished? It's 5 years in recession. In a few more years, there will be kids that will slowly go into productive ages that only knew the punishment years.

NonAmerican · 2012-05-25T06:23:08.289386+00:00

It's a bit of a different quote than I thought it was, but it has a similar meaning (Cuba = under sanctions, semi-isolated; Haiti = impoverished):

Einars Már Gudmundsson, a novelist, said most citizens were unaware that Iceland's three leading banks –Landsbanki, Glitnir and Kaupthing – were operating as global hedge funds with exposure of 11 times Iceland's GDP.

"I had never heard of Icesave till this happened," said Mr Gudmundsson. "We were told that what these banks did abroad was nothing to do with us but when it all went wrong the responsibility fell back on us. Profits were privatised, but losses were nationalised."

He added: "We're told if we reject the terms, we will be the Cuba of the North. But if we accept, we'll be the Haiti of the North."

Source

barsoap · 2012-05-25T05:22:24.119406+00:00

We got burned in the World Cup by a referee from Mali, I believe. It caused a nationwide moment of bitterness. Also, Americans don't understand why FIFA won't allow instant-replay cameras to verify the accuracy of the referee's calls. I also recall hearing a sports commentator on TV saying that Europeans enjoy the bias of their referees, seeing it as an added layer of drama and challenge, such as: "Can Manchester win even though the referee is against them?" It's like the thrill of winning despite an openly biased referee is part of the attraction of the game for Europeans, as are the European national rivalries that the referees' biases represent. I can understand that, but Americans don't really tend to enjoy that kind of situation in sports, especially when the bias is heavily against them whenever they try to compete with the big, famous soccer teams.

Perhaps that last point is the most important one: there is a feeling, at least among myself and some other Americans, that the international soccer community is biased against the US and wants to see us lose, and nothing will be done if referees act upon that sentiment in ways that tarnish the fairness of the game.

I don't follow soccer, so forgive me if any of my information is a bit dated. Soccer's popularity is currently rising quite rapidly in the US, largely because of Hispanics being huge fans, so the attitudes I'm describing, which were largely formed during the World Cup of 3 or 4 years ago (not sure), are probably now changing into acceptance and enjoyment of soccer.

Thepogschampion · 2012-05-25T05:06:12.529930+00:00

My understanding of the WWII-era Japanese military is that a private would have probably been from a poor family; maybe that guy grew up in a farming community in conditions not unlike the ones those Chinese kids were living in.

It was the aristocratic officers, the ones who thought of themselves as samurai and wanted to create a reputation for themselves, who would order atrocities and have beheading competitions. The guy in the photo is probably a simple man who just wanted to serve his country and go home safely.

john_i_am · 2012-05-25T04:35:00.272454+00:00

I sleep on my back with my face pointing toward the ceiling, and I used to get neck pains. I solved it by placing another pillow to the left of my head and another one to the right of my head, effectively preventing my head from rolling to the left or the right while I sleep. The problem, apparently, had been that my neck muscles had been holding my head steady on the pillow all night, and that problem was solved by the pillows bracing my head in place.

Blookies · 2012-05-25T04:13:30.205036+00:00

I know us Americans can be douche-bags

I get the strong impression that Americans are actually much more polite, on average, than Europeans. When I meet Europeans, one of the most common things they tell me is that Americans are unusually nice to strangers.

Compare American tourists to British tourists, for example. I think we usually come across as sober, respectful, and well-mannered.

barsoap · 2012-05-25T03:52:11.264220+00:00

We cared, but everyone is powerless to do anything against the Supreme Court. Once the Supreme Court decided to screw up the Florida recount by making it impossible to finish it on time, the Democrats (half the country) were like, "What? Why?" and then slunk away, because the Supreme Court's word is final.

Is there any equivalent organization in European governments? These are nine judges, appointed for life, whose word is final. The only possible remedy is to impeach them one justice at a time, and that requires basically the same process as impeaching the president (conviction by 2/3 of the Senate, I believe).

It is worth noting that the Florida recount was eventually completed by various media organizations, headed by the New York Times. This recount found that Bush would have won anyway; in other words, though the Supreme Court decision in Bush v. Gore was a travesty of justice, it didn't actually change the outcome of the 2000 presidential election.

GinoCY · 2012-05-25T03:42:26.838295+00:00

Israel

I thought Israel and Turkey weren't really allies anymore, even though they used to be close.

Fun fact: my country is bound by law to join in on Israel's side in any war involving Israel. :(

NonAmerican · 2012-05-25T03:34:52.349069+00:00

BTW, I live in the hometown of NASA (Houston, as in, "Houston, the Eagle has landed").

The idea behind scrapping the NASA space shuttle is that the private sector will now explore space instead of the government. I hope they never figure out how to put giant billboards into low-earth orbit.

anabolic · 2012-05-25T03:24:43.435057+00:00

You don't think it be like it is, but it do.

barsoap · 2012-05-25T03:11:13.563587+00:00

do you really think they'd vote for each other if it weren't for the music?

Oh please. I've read enough of this subreddit to know what you Europeans really think about the fairness of Eurovision. For example, from this very thread:

"The votes are never about the music, they are about century old grudges that are stupid, and even related to recent wars in south central Europe. For instance, France often give England nil points and vice versa, they are a platform to flaunt age old grudges that have no place in modern Europe!"

Source

Americans have little interest in these ancient European grudges and aren't normally interested in either song contests or soccer games that are decided by them (not that most soccer matches are, but it happened to the US in the World Cup a few years ago, and it embittered me and other Americans with whom I was watching the games, and the sentiments I'm writing were also expressed by US sports media personalities at the time).

barsoap · 2012-05-25T02:56:35.687220+00:00

Dude.. they watch American Idol

Ok, here is how I will put it: Americans do not view reality TV as being important in the way they think sports are important. If so-called "reality" shows are partially scripted, we can live with that.

But cheating or unfairness in sports is taboo. Look at our obsession with instant play-backs and consider the Congressional investigation of steroid use in baseball.

The fact that soccer referees can make whatever call they want, with no instant playback or video record or any way to challenge the ref's decision, and the fact that refs occasionally abuse that power, is one factor that makes non-Hispanic Americans a bit disinterested in the global soccer scene.

I guess Eurovision might be received more like American Idol, but Eurovision is supposed to be an international competition, which makes it somewhat similar to international athletic competitions.

barsoap · 2012-05-25T02:42:28.329300+00:00

The referees often make decisions based on which team they like, not the rules of the game. That's not fixing the game, but it is determining its outcome according to factors other than how well the players performed.

barsoap · 2012-05-24T21:39:44.196951+00:00

Because of favoritism toward European nations.

barsoap · 2012-05-24T21:32:17.922167+00:00

Putting the music aside, Americans would still hate Eurovision because the winners are not determined in a fair manner. As I understand it, it is all about favoritism. The process is rigged. Americans cannot stand a massive, spectacular competition that is rigged. That's why the US has been slow to get into football (soccer): Americans perceive the referees as calling games based on favoritism, not what actually happened, and once football is seen that way, many Americans lose all interest in it.

barsoap · 2012-05-24T21:28:42.647627+00:00

The only time Eurovision made the American news was when it was held (or was going to be held?) in Russia. Eurovision was presented as basically a gay pride festival; the only issue the media discussed was whether Russia, which is supposedly very homophobic, was tolerant enough of gays for Eurovision to happen without rioting or violence. There was a lot of sad head-shaking at how backwards the cruel Russians are if they can't tolerate gay Europeans.

To be fair, the media described Eurovision as originating as a non-gay-specific event. But, it said, over time the contest had become such a strong attraction for gay people that it should now be understood as a crucial part of European gay culture.

NonAmerican · 2012-05-24T21:11:48.107557+00:00

Grants to state and local governments, salaries, defense contracts, etc.

But none of that is intended to pay off debts incurred by the recipient states. Instead, those payments are the result of things that the national government decided to do on its own. Now, of course representatives of the states lobbied for much of this money, so it is fair to describe it as a wealth transfer. But that process of negotiating and lobbying the national government is different from independently assuming a huge debt and then asking the entire nation to pay it. In the former, the rest of the nation has a say, because the issue comes to a vote or is resolved by the democratically-elected national government. In the latter, the nation has no say, like how Europe had no control over the situation that resulted in Greece's debt crisis.

Clayburn · 2012-05-24T20:42:21.373217+00:00

I would simply kill the same percentage of each country's population. The unlucky ones would be selected by lottery. If any other method were used, its legacy would be WWIII, as the nations or classes who were "punished" by bearing the brunt of the eradication took their missiles and guns and attacked those who had been favored.

NonAmerican · 2012-05-24T20:33:11.901111+00:00

As far as I know, it's a rather different situation. There are federal laws that provide subsidies for things like agriculture, and there are also national programs (Medicare, Medicaid) that help provide health care for people who are elderly, children, disabled, or very poor. The spending on health care assistance is certainly the vast majority of the re-distributed money.

This type of re-distribution is not the same as paying off a state's debts. The states did not incur debt and then ask other states to pay for it; rather, there are national programs, passed by Congress and the President rather than state governments, which receive more funding from wealthier states because those states make more money and thus, via the income tax, contribute more to the national government's budget than the poorer states do. This can be described as a wealth transfer if you calculate how much tax money the poorer states contributed to federal programs like Medicare, and then subtract the amount of Medicare etc. money that they received. If you get a negative number for a certain state, there was wealth transferred to that state. Each state is still responsible for its own debt. So, for example, California, which has a notoriously high debt (and is also the richest state), has had to deal with balancing its debt by itself.

NonAmerican · 2012-05-24T20:24:07.447379+00:00

Greece would - of course - become Europe's North Korea.

Wasn't it also widely predicted that Iceland would become the Haiti of Europe if it rejected austerity?

NonAmerican · 2012-05-24T20:17:02.964727+00:00

Pissing contests are our specialty. We landed on the motherfucking moon. Why? Because fuck Russia, that's why.

We would have full national health coverage in a year if we could somehow make it into a nationalistic competition with a suitably demonizable foreign country.

NonAmerican · 2012-05-24T20:10:19.927847+00:00

you can either have a Federative European Union type of situation and have rich states transfer some of the wealth towards poor states, or the monetary union will die.

It's a two-way street, however. If Greece won't collect taxes or trim its spending, it will forever drain huge sums of money from northern Europe, and for no good reason.

In the US, the national government has few qualms about depriving a state of certain funds if the state does not comply with the conditions attached to those funds (there are exceptions for a few environmental protection programs). As a result, the states keep in line, for the most part, and if they choose to be defiant, as some do, that's their choice: they don't have to follow the rule in question and they loose the funds that would have come with it.

The relatively young age of the EU makes this a bit of a different scenario, as does the potential rise of fascism or communism in Greece. But still, the rest of Europe is clearly signaling that its patience with Greek intransigence is limited. Greece has to reform if the EU is going to work.

smort · 2012-05-24T16:46:31.926413+00:00

it's not fair to paint Republican voters as some homogeneous bloc that doesn't care about policies when the same is true of Democrats.

Mitt Romney is the perfect example of what I was talking about. Many conservatives didn't agree with him, but now they are all lining up to vote for him. Do liberals also reliably vote for Democrats? Yes. That in no way affects the truth of what I said in my last post. About 40% of the country would vote for any Republican presidential candidate, within reason.

Democrats are just as willing and able to engage in character assassination as the GOP

LOL!

Who is the Democratic Atwater or Rove? Romney is famed for character attacks, as is Karl Rove. Atwater released the notorious "Willie Horton" ad and devastated the public's perception of Dukakis' character. Obama, Clinton, Dukakis, Carter: none of them are or were known for character assassination.

Your thing about Obama unfairly calling people "racist" is just a "boo hoo we're the victims" Fox News distraction. If Republicans didn't spend so much time demanding to see Obama's birth certificate, and if it hadn't been proven that many of them think he is a Muslim and dislike him for that reason, accusations of Republican prejudice wouldn't be so widely believed (i.e., the accusations are largely true: many Republicans are basing their votes on prejudice; for another example: gay rights).

executivemonkey · 2012-05-24T16:28:33.786297+00:00

Bah, that sounds sort of like the situation in the US. Here, there is a very complex system of tax deductions and credits which people and corporations can claim if they qualify. Using this system of legal "tax evasion," plus creative accounting and investment in offshore tax havens, the rich (especially corporations) often pay no taxes.

This is a huge problem in America. You might have heard that we have a "budget crisis." The crisis was entirely manufactured by Republicans. The Bush tax cuts have cost the federal government more revenue than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus much of our quasi-national-health system (for about 10 years) COMBINED. Now, taking advantage of a tax cut is clearly legal, but when the ultra-rich end up paying no or almost no taxes, it seems to me like they are evading their fair share of the nation's burdens. After all, they used our resources and legal system to get rich in the first place, and how can business continue to function if our education, health, and infrastructure are allowed to degrade because the government can't or won't properly invest in them?

At the other end, many lower-income workers also evade taxes. This primarily occurs when people are mostly paid with tips (waiters, bartenders, strippers, valet parkers). Though they are supposed to pay tax on these tips, and they have no way around it if they are tipped by credit card, cash tips can be pocketed without the government's knowledge. This is a custom in America.

Businesses that hire illegal immigrants from Latin America also often pay no taxes on their labor and pay them below minimum wage; this happens in restaurants, agriculture, landscaping, factory work (especially slaughterhouses), moving (as in moving from one house to another), and construction. In these cases, as you correctly pointed out, the businesses are at fault. They want to avoid labor laws, though they rationalize what they do by saying that Americans wouldn't want to do the work or wouldn't work hard enough (translation: the jobs offer insufficient wages and we don't want to pay people properly). Companies even send recruiters to Mexico to get laborers who will work for below minimum wage, though this may have ceased since Obama's severe crackdown on employers using illegal labor.

theknightwhosays_nee · 1 day

This is disturbing on two levels: not only was it a kidney stone, but you ate it for just $20. That implies that either you wanted to do it and it wasn't really about the money, or else you were in a seriously fucked up situation and had to beg for money from a Hitlerian sadist.

StarBarbershop · 1 day

Yes. Some Latin American states sent a few hundred troops to Afghanistan or Iraq (maybe both), so they could do the same thing in Mexico. However, I think the US would take the lead if Mexico couldn't, for whatever reason. But you're right: a coalition of American nations might be the best option. It depends on how Mexicans perceive the Latin American states; they might resent Honduran soldiers more than Americans for all I know.

Edit: The UN could take the lead. A Zeta-backed state in Mexico would be serious enough to warrant the world's attention.

executivemonkey

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