Energy bill expected to favour nuclear and gas over renewables

DonManuel · 2012-05-24T14:38:50.309673+00:00

Correct. So what you are doing is comparing nuclear to gas, not nuclear to wind.

JackIsidore · 2012-05-24T14:38:12.025856+00:00

Let me clarify. I'm concerned that at a time of year where demand should be increasing, we are seeing a drop in the oil price, especially during a time when Libya's oil is still mostly offline and Iranian oil is questionable. This is an indicator that demand is dropping, which presages another recession.

ItsJustAConspiracy · 2012-05-24T14:36:36.635754+00:00

There most certainly is a legitimate basis for my claim. If climate sensitivity were as high as claimed, the forcing from increased CO2 since pre-industrial times would have resulted in higher temperatures than we currently observe.

ItsJustAConspiracy · 2012-05-24T14:35:17.370366+00:00

Are you an actual climate scientist, or a fake one like Hansen?

DonManuel · 2012-05-24T04:45:56.125437+00:00

We're getting nowhere, so let's try a new tack. What's cheaper, gas only or gas plus wind?

camilstoenescu · 2012-05-24T04:27:04.143729+00:00

Except of course this isn't some bleeting from the religion of the day.

Well...

MrDong · 2012-05-24T04:04:16.737807+00:00

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but you are mistaken on all three counts.

Solar energy is both diffuse and intermittent. Your third point (liquid metal batteries) would only solve the latter and at great expense. Solar power does nothing at present to solve the liquid fuels problem.
Fuel cells, regardless of energy input, are prohibitively expensive because of the platinum catalysts they require. The last time I priced it out the cost of 15 kW worth of fuel cells (the amount needed for a small car) was about $75,000.
Liquid metal batteries are a great idea. The only problem is that they are severely constrained by the amount of antimony available. The constraint for liquid metal batteries is much higher than the constraint of lithium for solid batteries.

JackIsidore · 2012-05-24T03:52:17.433207+00:00

I'll tell you what makes me more nervous: the price of oil has dropped rather sharply.

El_Biffo · 2012-05-23T23:44:34.988310+00:00

I'm about half way through Mr. Das's talk, and I'm enjoying it very much, but was wondering if anyone has his slides.

DonManuel · 2012-05-23T23:26:40.203433+00:00

So one car payment then.

What you are missing is the difference between capital costs and variable costs. Onshore wind does not compare to nuclear in any way because it is intermittent. In order to compensate for this problem, a secondary system is needed. You can't assume the cost of the second system is zero just because you like wind.

ItsJustAConspiracy · 2012-05-23T23:24:42.304184+00:00

The source Skepticalscience.com is straightforwardly summarizing a paper. If you believe the source has engaged in "alarmist shit" in the submitted link, please point it out.

The whole site is devoted to alarmism. John Cook wasn't doing so well as a cartoonist, so he decided to pander to the panicky.

The paper discussed in the submitted link finds a climate sensitivity value completely inline (smack in the middle, actually) with the body of evidence. If you believe that Hansen has engaged in "alarmist shit" in the paper referenced in the submitted link, please point it out.

Hansen himself is an alarmist and has been since the 1970s. Of course then he was certain it was aerosols the were somehow going to fry us all.

tekprodfx16 · 2012-05-23T23:22:56.939558+00:00

I didn't answer because it's something you could easily look up yourself and the exact value wasn't central to the point under discussion (your magical exception to Svensmark's hypothesis) or the broader discussion of GCRs not driving climatic change.

I doubt it. More like you knew that you had misspoken. You could have replied to any of my requests with "look it up," but you chose to ignore them instead.

tekprodfx16 · 2012-05-23T21:13:06.281283+00:00

You have. I asked you to answer a question about how much colder periods were during previous interglacials (periods you claimed were signficantly colder than the last interglacial), yet you refused to answer.

Moreover, had you watched my comment history for last week, I made very few comments due to a busy schedule.

ItsJustAConspiracy · 2012-05-23T21:11:27.485796+00:00

Skepticalscience.com
James Hansen.

ItsJustAConspiracy · 2012-05-23T21:11:02.382606+00:00

If I believed that, I wouldn't be skeptical of Hansen's claims. In fact, if climate sensitivity were really 3°C per doubling of atmospheric CO2, temperatures would be much higher than they are at present.

DonManuel · 2012-05-23T21:09:39.933260+00:00

As I said, if you want to consider your 24/7 cost you can divide your consumption into the electricity coming from wind (that is cheaper than nuclear), and the electricity coming from gas (that is even cheaper than wind, and therefore nuclear). You add up those two numbers, and you get a price of electricity that is cheaper than nuclear.

I see. So if I buy two cars and alternate between them each day, I only have one car payment?

AlyssaMoore · 2012-05-23T21:08:33.889432+00:00

You live in the UK. I live in the western U.S. where the majority of land is federal land and subject to ridiculous levels of regulation.

fa1thless · 2012-05-23T21:07:44.451951+00:00

Bishop Snow lived in the Manti area. There was a young hottie he wanted as another wife, but she had a boyfriend. According to the story, he solved that little problem by having the boyfriend castrated.

In other words, watch your balls, my friend.

DonManuel · 2012-05-23T19:37:51.686698+00:00

I don't really see what your point is. There is a mix of energy. Sometimes there is a lot of wind, so some of the gas plants can be stopped, or curtailed.

Right. Thus, the cost of the gas plant must be considered part of the wind energy cost if you want 24/7 delivery.

The investments are private, so you, the end user don't care about of you need to one system or two.

That would be true if there weren't huge subsidies for renewables.

fa1thless · 2012-05-23T17:59:14.045777+00:00

He's not Bishop Snow by any chance?

Will_Power · 2012-05-23T17:47:04.712199+00:00

Yes. Thank you.

citizenpolitician · 2012-05-23T10:46:26.764974-07:00

How much for year-round ownership and voting rights? Also, I presume (from my brief read so far) that this will be accomplished via a U.S.-based S-Corp or LLC. Aren't there upper limits to the number of people who can own shares in either? I am certain there are for S-Corps. LLC's, I'm not so sure.

Will_Power · 2012-05-23T17:43:18.001298+00:00

So it's OK that Boomers don't give a fuck about younger generations? Gotcha.

Oh, when I said, "Go fuck yourself," I really meant it. Moreso now. Fuck yourself with something spiky.

citizenpolitician · 2012-05-23T17:17:46.771684+00:00

I'm reading up on things now, but is there a set amount? Did I read somewhere that those wishing to join put up $250?

citizenpolitician · 2012-05-23T10:08:55.782355-07:00

How much has been committed so far?

Will_Power

TROPHY CASE

you'll need to login or register to do that

create a new account

login