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I don't care IF protesters were violent towards the police, the police had NO EXCUSE to continue to fire upon protesters who were merely attempted to aid Scott Olsen. Video proof included. Arrest those cops. Now. (self.politics)
submitted 6 months ago by suntfrumose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OZLyUK0t0vQ
County District Attorney Nancy O'Malley: (510) 272-6222
She has the ability to do something about this. Make sure she knows we want her to.
Edit: Attempting to aid Scott Olsen****** Sorry for typo.
[–]speakingofsegues 195 points196 points197 points 6 months ago
I hear police forces continually saying "One bad cop doesn't represent the whole police force."
Well, neither does one rowdy protester represent the entire peaceful group of protesters.
I'm sure the police will spend three months "looking into this" and coming up with nothing.
[–]PaladinZ06 31 points32 points33 points 6 months ago
It would have been crystal clear to the other officers what the one just did - there was no action on their part.
[–]DancesWithDownvotes 598 points599 points600 points 6 months ago*
I don't understand...if the protesters aren't looting and damaging things, why are the police doing anything other than just standing there? What exactly are they being told to do, and what exactly do they think their jobs are?
Edit: I don't think it's so much that their job is to protect the rich, but more the result of an understanding that if they don't do what those with money/power tell them to they could lose their jobs. It's tough to consider that some of them face the same dilemma we Redditors do, which is deciding if we can give up our livelihoods to go and stand on the side of the good guys.
And then there are dicks that throw flashbangs at wounded ex-Marines. Really, I gave empathy my best shot, but this guy was in no danger. I can think of no relevant or humane reason for that course of action.
[–]mvelez999 270 points271 points272 points 6 months ago
I think that you are asking the right question. They are supposed to keep order not cause trouble themselves.
[–]its_complicated 28 points29 points30 points 6 months ago*
other way around, when people are protesting something the government doesn't like the job of the police is to attack and batter, and even kill, this even happens in America, innocent civilians, escalating the situation and giving the media a good angle for demonizing people that support the policy.
[–]clevelandsteam 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
yeah, seems to be ignored/dismissed or justified as the right thing to do, but when the United States witnesses these things occurring in other countries we make it our duty to step in for humanity and retain order.
[–]Kim147 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
From a non USA person's point of view I would say that you have a break down of law and order police end . I can only see this resulting in the people losing confidence and trust in the police and the whole situation escalating into all out anarchy American style . I wish you luck , peace and God speed and I'm very glad I'm not in the USA .
[–]WTFppl 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
I hope you're honest about not being in the US and seeing it from the outside as your honest opinion is relevant and hard for someone like me to dismiss. It lets me know that I'm not crazy in my thoughts when I say to myself, "is the media getting better, or are things really becoming more fucked up"?
[–]Kim147 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
I'm UK and France based and , yes , things really look very fucked up . We at least have the social democracy safety net which takes the hard edge off matters . However all the totalitarian legislation introduced during the Bush Blair years seems to be there for a purpose whose conditions for which we are now seeing . Makes one wonder what is really happening and what will happen . Personally I think we are living in really dangerous times and the authorities and powers that be don't have a clue , are incompetent or are belligerent . Ultimately the people have to take back control because all else looks like it's failing and failing pretty quickly .
[–]Ialmostthewholepost 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Canadian here. It's evident to a lot out us that things are retarded. However, apathy still runs rampant. Sorry about that. ; )
[–]MAC_TRUCK_HITS_BABY 69 points70 points71 points 6 months ago
People are saying the protest was becoming a riot and that some protesters were throwing things at cops and so forth.
[–]Ramyth 168 points169 points170 points 6 months ago
The cops claimed people were throwing things. They also swore they didn't use flashbangs and we all saw how true that was.
[–]i_hate_lamp 96 points97 points98 points 6 months ago
There were people throwing paint. There's also an interview floating around where one protester says, straight up, that people were throwing water bottles. Don't be so quick to judge either one of the groups. Oakland is a pressure cooker because of the latest round of protests about the BART shootings. Police are jumpy, and Oakland doesn't like cops.
Keep in mind, not everyone is a little snowflake. Some of the people protesting believe in some very radical things, such as violent overthrow, and feel that the police are their enemy. Some people want to make things worse to make their E-penises bigger, or whore karma.
There were also 15 different agencies at the protest that night. 14 of those were not OPD. The chief's statement could be true, Oakland PD did not use rubber bullets or flashbangs.
[–]andrewchi 37 points38 points39 points 6 months ago
Don't play with water bottles unless you're prepared to get we-- flashbanged in your face.
[–]JohnStamosAsABear 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Woe be to the group of Super Soaker enthusiasts that accidently walk into this protest. This sounds like Far Side comic.
[–]EdwardDiego 130 points131 points132 points 6 months ago
So what you're saying is a couple of protesters had the audacity to hand-hurl bottles of water and paint at police that were clad in armor medieval knights couldn't have dreamed of? Well, by all means, indiscriminately unleash the 40mm grenade launchers and flashbangs on every single motherfucker there. Guess they had it coming.
[–]JustifiedTrueBelief 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
Most of the things I saw being thrown in the video are the fucking tear gas canisters the cops shot in the first place.
[–]ARunawaySlave 45 points46 points47 points 6 months ago
fucking seriously. clearly giving this dude brain damage was justified because a couple of asshats were acting rowdy and making the cops mildly uncomfortable.
[–]WhyYouThinkThat 36 points37 points38 points 6 months ago
Not to mention some of those throwing shit could be police infiltrators tryin to give the cops a "good" reason to crack down... This definitely happens.
[–]ARunawaySlave 46 points47 points48 points 6 months ago
and when I tell people about it I get looked at like a crackpot, even though police provocateurs are well-documented. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse...cops get armor and weapons, the state literally monopolizes the use of force, but somehow asshole hippies are responsible for Olsen getting his brains smashed in, fucking what?
[–]TheGoshDarnedBatman 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
Just from a political philosophy perspective, the state must have a monopoly on force to be legitimate. Gangs of violent criminals or vigilantes represent a threat to peaceful society. To believe that everyone will get along is just willful ignorance/naivete. The state monopolizes violence in order to protect all of its citizens.
You may argue here that the state is failing to protect citizens, but the general point remains. States must monopolize violence to be legitimate governments.
[–]TacticusThrowaway 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago*
The existence of police APs is documented. There is little to indicate that they are being used in the OWS protests, or in any specific protests in particular. Conservative reporters, yes. Police, not so much. What you're doing is the same as a conspiracy theorist saying the government keeps secrets from the public, therefore aliens. Frankly, I'd be more surprised if people protesting the injustices of the military-industrial complex didn't get het up enough to start throwing things at those meanie 5-0s.
[–]ARunawaySlave 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
I'm not saying that all of the violence has been perpetrated provocateurs, and realistically violence incited by police APs is probably a tiny minority of the violence as a whole. I was simply responding to another redditor's post. I understand the gap in my logic that you're taking to task, but I have no excuse other than that I made a generalization and intended a different context (the other person's post) I guess.
[–]eviljames 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
Happened at Toronto's G8/G20 summits.
[–]ikancast 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
I agree. IF they wanted to take the right action they should have calmly walked over to those throwing things towards them and ARRESTED those people only. To inflict pain and fear in a group of people because you think the actions of the few deem it worthy, that is abuse of power.
[–]ARunawaySlave 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
exactly. I was going to make the concert/water bottle comparison but I see a keener redditor has already made the obvious connection...the use of force has been wholly disproportionate on the cops' part.
[–]ultrablastermegatron 20 points21 points22 points 6 months ago
just like that handcuffed guy with 4 BART guys on top him had that shot in the back coming.
[–]brazilliandanny 14 points15 points16 points 6 months ago
No shit, Have you ever been to a concert? It's normal to get hit by a half dozen flying water bottles before the nights end. Cops overreacted. Also if everybody (including the cops) is filming everything, where is the footage of protesters trowing anything?
[–]redhand22 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
The cops aren't the reason people are occupying Wall Street.
[–]khepra 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
If they didn't flashbang the guy whose brains were leaking out of his head, he might have attracted zombies. It's routine, dude.
[–]popquizmf 32 points33 points34 points 6 months ago
If they were throwing things, then fine, maybe they should have gotten arrested/whatever, but this is about people coming to the aid of someone who is obviously injured, and then having a flash bang thrown right in the middle of them, practically on top of a guy who is now in the hospital. So, as the original poster suggested, that/those cop(s) SHOULD by all right be arrested.
[–]zbb93 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
This is also about the way OPD misused their less than lethal weaponry. A rubber bullet is not considered less than lethal if you shoot someone in the head with it at that range. Same goes for a tear gas canister. The misuse of this force is something that needs to be addressed because those protestors were doing nothing to incite a lethal response from the police.
[–]notablack 16 points17 points18 points 6 months ago
By this logic at nearly every festival I have been to a SWAT team should have been called in!
[–]nullsucks 5 points6 points7 points 6 months ago
There were people throwing paint.
Evidence please.
There's also an interview floating around where one protester says, straight up, that people were throwing water bottles.
Link it. From my understanding, people threw bottles of water to other protestors.
The chief's statement could be true, Oakland PD did not use rubber bullets or flashbangs.
His statement remains deeply deceptive. It's obvious from the video that somebody used flash-bangs and there's other evidence that somebody used rubber bullets.
[–]akula 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Lol don't you know anything? A flashbang is an mm-88 an those peace officers were using an mm-88.1. Jeeze!
/s
And sorry I didn't actually look up the exact model number of the flashbang and the non-flashbang.
[–]nullsucks 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
I especially like it when police spokepeople get very technical and very specific in denying exactly which law enforcement group used exactly which weapons.
They're obviously trying to deceive people with great big lies of omission.
Sadly, the establishment media has failed to notice that. They just write down the nice spokesman's words, add some errors, and call it a day.
Apology accepted, but don't let it happen again :)
Yeah someone yesterday looked them both up on the manufactures websites and both are described equally as a powerful flashbang.
[–]karmafreesince83111 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
people threw bottles of water to other protestors.
Right, because when you get pepper spray or tear gas in your eyes, you might want a bottle of water to flush it out.
[–]i_hate_lamp 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago*
Blam.
I also said that 14 other agencies not named Oakland PD were there, and could have been using them, making it possible that the chief isn't making that up.
[–]shaqfearsyao 11 points12 points13 points 6 months ago
People were throwing water bottles, pop, and rioting when Hulk Hogan joined the NWO and nobody went up into the crowd and started firing at them.
NWO 4 Life!!!!
[–]ClemsonPoker 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
feel that the police are their enemy.
Where could they ever have gotten that silly idea?
[–]supersauce 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
"When someone wettens our officers, we respond with deadly force."
supersauce
[–]alexincode 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Some people want to make things worse to make their E-penises bigger, or whore karma.
I was with you until then. This may shock you but in real life you don't get a karma number, and there are real penises instead of E-penises.
And if not flashbangs, what were those flashing, banging things the police were throwing?
[–]Maynguene_banana 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Son of a bitch! God has been throwing flashbangs at us for century's!
(not saying you're not right, just saying a lot of flashy stuff is also bangy)
[–]alexincode 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
I'm not sure if they were flashbangs or not, I am honestly curious what they were if not flashbangs.
[–]svrnmnd 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
This is true , BART police officers have killed 2 people in the last 2 years, recently they shut down cell service in their stations so protesters couldn't assemble. You all remember this got a lot of attention from anonymous and there were huge protests.
However Oakland is one of the countries more dangerous cities, My brother lived in Berkley then San Francisco and he said some nights you can straight hear gun fire on a nightly basis. I was reading one student journalists story from /r/anarchism saying that he started marching with the protesters and rushed 2 assholes that were trying to flip a dumpster over.
I do believe that protesters were throwing things, but I've seen crowds throw shit at concerts and football games at cops and nothing was done, it's pretty much part of the job.
[–]JerkJenkins 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Seriously? Water bottles? Against police in riot gear standing behind a barricade?
Any excuse to bring out the toys and the police generally tend to do so.
[–]CoNiGMa 13 points14 points15 points 6 months ago
In this video, I did see something at 0:32-0:34 aside from the tear gas canister being thrown. It appears to be a phone book, but it also appears to be coming from BEHIND the barricade which is where the cops are.
[–]lemonstar 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago*
That's exactly what it looks like. There's no way the cop highlighted in the video threw that.
EDIT: Nevermind, looks like whatever I pointed out was trash or something. See replies below.
[–]schlottk 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago*
Except the item you pointed out is a piece of trash and not the flashbang in question. In your image taken at the 0:35 second mark, you can see him leaning back to start throwing it, if you see a projectile before 35seconds its not the flashbang
[–]lemonstar 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Wow, you're right I totally missed that. I could have sworn the thing I pointed out had a smoke trail or something coming off it. Thanks for pointing that out.
[–]nullsucks 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Two objects pass from behind the police barricade in the video. The flash-bang grenade is the second one and it's clear that the highlighted officer threw that.
[–]CoNiGMa 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
That is the item I was referring to. The flashbang is tossed in a small arc over the railing. But that one you were pointing to does look like a phone book to me. I would say it was a piece of trash, but it flew like it had weight and arched.
[–]jebba 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
1) Tear gas grenade (most likely) shot at Olsen.
2) Something that looks like trash, a phone book, or whatever comes flying from the cops at the protestors.
3) As people help Olsen, they get hit by a "flash bang" grenade or similar.
In the "news" helicopter video, you can see object #2 appear to hit or come very close to the Navy guy who was holding the flag. I'd suggest a cop just picked up something that was there in the streets and tried to hit Navy-flag-man with it.
[–]JumpingJesus 53 points54 points55 points 6 months ago
That's kind of a chicken/egg paradox because when you have two groups of tense people facing off, and it blows up, it's hard to determine who started it. Just as likely the police got tense and fired off tear gas or something.
[–]Naieve 150 points151 points152 points 6 months ago
Yeah, and the police have been caught sending undercover cops into protests to try and incite a riot so they can arrest the protestors. In Denver the uniformed cops actually maced the undercover cops.
There were no repercussions at all for this blatant act of police criminality. Or the numerous other incidents which have been recorded.
We can no longer believe a word of what the police say, they are unreliable witnesses.
[–]grkirchhoff 55 points56 points57 points 6 months ago
They have been unreliable for a long time. People are just now starting to realize it.
[–]ajoshw 30 points31 points32 points 6 months ago
By for a long time, you have to mean forever. A cop's word is potentially as good or bad as anyone else's. Don't assume all cops are crooked, or that all citizens are innocent. Just sayin'.
[–]EntAway 80 points81 points82 points 6 months ago
I've been hijacked at gunpoint by cops (this is made less shocking by the fact that I live in South Africa, which is probably one of the more corrupt fuck shows on the planet). At the same time, the cops were fast, efficient and incredibly good to me during another incident when I was mugged. Some people are doing a job, some people are assholes and some people genuinely want to help you. That's true for all humans, including cops. I unsubscribed from /badcopnodonut when posts started appearing, inciting violence against all cops, simply because of their chosen profession. The cops in Oakland should be arrested but like I said, I'm from South Africa, and I have some first hand experience when it comes to what happens when you start labeling groups of people as all being the same. I wouldn't want it done to me. I refuse to do it to others.
[–]Naieve 29 points30 points31 points 6 months ago
Myself and most others agree entirely with that statement. The problem is the police are now above the law for almost all intents and purposes.
Their word carries far more weight in court, and instead of having more accountability for their actions, they have less.
With more power should come more accountability.
Especially when you can pretty much murder any person and say you thought their cell phone was a gun. (Referencing an article about a trigger happy cop on a killing spree that was right here on reddit not too long ago.)
[–]OrgasmicRegret 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
link to source and reddit ama or whatever it was?
[–]Naieve 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Sierra told investigators he feared for his life because he believed Farmer had a gun. In fact, Farmer was only holding a cellphone. Despite the video, the Police Department ruled Farmer's June 7 death justified, just as it had Sierra's other two shootings this year. But police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said he considers the Farmer case "a big problem" and told the Tribune that the officer involved should not have been on the street given his history of shootings
Sierra told investigators he feared for his life because he believed Farmer had a gun.
In fact, Farmer was only holding a cellphone.
Despite the video, the Police Department ruled Farmer's June 7 death justified, just as it had Sierra's other two shootings this year. But police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said he considers the Farmer case "a big problem" and told the Tribune that the officer involved should not have been on the street given his history of shootings
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-police-involved-shootings-1023-20111022,0,2860489,full.story
A police PR person's word is worse than the average. Their job is to lie to the public.
[–]th3pudding 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
we MUST assume that all citizens are innocent until proven guilty.
[–]taninecz 28 points29 points30 points 6 months ago
*white people are just now starting to realize it.
[–]JumpingJesus 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Yeah, agents provocateur are a well-documented phenomenon.
[–]slavashalava 18 points19 points20 points 6 months ago
Egg came first.
[–]Cpl_DreamSmasher 16 points17 points18 points 6 months ago
Anyone who has given this serious thought should know this.
Egg. It's always been egg.
[–]mywhitewolf 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
eggs existed way before chickens, dinosaurs had eggs.
[–]nullsucks 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
it's hard to determine who started it.
Thus the need for evidence. The protestors have shown evidence of police misdeeds, such as the video in the OP.
The police have shown no evidence, instead, they've lied about the weapons that they used.
[–]OJ_287 19 points20 points21 points 6 months ago
That's an interesting way to look at it. And by interesting I mean a seemingly very uncritical, "conditioned to believe 'authority' is necessary" perspective. No one could have foreseen there being any problems! Right? See, it isn't a chicken and egg thing because no cops = no tension, no "standoff." No one to throw paint and water bottles at (if that is at all true in the first place).
Why were the cops there in the first place? Why is it that when American citizens peaceably assemble, in an attempt to voice legitimate grievances, there are stormtroopers present? Those are the questions I think we should be asking ourselves instead of just mindlessly accepting that there needs to be "authority" everywhere. Who or what are the cops really "protecting and serving?"
IMO it isn't a chicken and egg thing and it is easy to determine who is at fault or who "started it." The fucking cops didn't need to be there intimidating, instigating and threatening, by their very presence, a group of unarmed, peaceful protesters in the first place.
[–]greenknight 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
The problem arises when unruly protestors break shit and tax paying citizens blame the cops for not doing anything. They can't really win.
Plus, in Oakland they have been having problems with LE for ages.
[–]floogley 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
The police need to be like Scott Olsen. He recognized that he is a citizen FIRST. He was a marine and swore to defend and be an instrument of that authority, however, he saw something wrong with that authority. He was out there working to effect change and exercise his rights as a U.S. citizen. There's no excuse for the police to act in this manner against fellow citizens.
[–]TacticusThrowaway 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
So the protestors just being there is not threatening, but the cops just being there is.
[–]ultrablastermegatron 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
seems to more tense on the cop side. is itchy trigger finger considered tense?
[–]FreshPrinceOfAiur 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
If you're a protester, march along a pre-agreed route (our cities aren't on general strike and need to operate) or sit and "occupy". Why are they facing off?
[–]Redgiemental 21 points22 points23 points 6 months ago
because they were being forced to move out of the area they were occupying.
[–]infiniteslinky 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Have you ever been to Oakland?
[–]karmafreesince83111 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
It's tough to consider that some of them face the same dilemma we Redditors do, which is deciding if we can give up our livelihoods to go and stand on the side of the good guys.
I just want to take this opportunity to suggest that there's absolutely no need to give up your livelihood. You can stand with the protesters in your spare time. I have a day job but I'm down there when I can on the weekends, participating in the marches. If you are worried about losing your job because you are caught on camera protesting, that's why so many are wearing masks and bandannas.
If you don't want to risk getting arrested you can still support the protesters by donating tents, tarps, food, money, cardboard, coats, hats, gloves, and lately those in colder climes are asking for baked potatoes wrapped in tinfoil (keeps hands warm and can be eaten too).
There are many ways to get involved so please don't wring your hands and use "might lose job" as your excuse. Heck, I've made it through three layoffs in past 3 years; if things continue and nothing changes, it's only a matter of time before I lose my job anyway. You, too. We are all in that sinking boat together.
[–]Leeni 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago
They threw a soda bottle at the police. It hurt their feelings.
[–]mixmix4 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
Police shot a 40mm CS grenade at a Marine. It hurt the speech center of his brain.
[–]spazmatt527 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
Police shot a 40mm CS grenade at a fellow human being. It hurt the speech center of his brain.
FTFY
Stop it, okay? STOP IT! Stop identifying them by their profession and start calling them a person. Just because they are a Marine does NOT mean that hurting them was somehow MORE morally wrong. A human is a human. Would you call him an electrician if that's what his profession was?
[–]Jerzeem 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
Calling him by profession heads off the, "He was a dirty hippy and deserved it!" retort.
[–]TurduckenII 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
There are so many other cops who aren't throwing flashbangs or shooting protestors in the face with tear gas canisters. I doubt those other cops who were more careful with their fire lost their jobs.
So this goes back to your original question, DancesWithDownvotes, and my uneducated opinion says that the cops want to break up the protestors without harming them, but because some of them see the protestors in such an oppositional light, that they use more force than necessary, because the protestors are the enemy, and the enemy helping each other should be stopped.
[–]DancesWithDownvotes 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Unfortunate and true. Those cops that you mention, the ones overusing force, are probably also pissed that they have to be there in the first place. Likely focuses frustration/anger at the protesters. Restraint is key, it was just lost on some that night.
[–]Bhraal 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Not making any stand or statement, just leaving this here: http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca/groups/police/documents/pressrelease/oak031916.pdf
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
i don't get this either. the only thing that needs to be done to quash occupy wall st. is NOTHING. the people in charge are morons though since they don't realize that you just have to let ows sit around for a few months before they get bored and go away.
i'm not rooting for ows to fail because what they are doing is impressive and necessary, but if i was in charge of dealing with them i'd literally ignore them and tell my constituents the same. ignoring them is the only way the 1% and supporters will win against a peaceful protest.
[–]apator 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Another thread posted the rules of crowd control the Oakland police should follow. In there they are not allowed to shoot projectiles of any kind into the crowd. That involves rubber bullets, etc. Chemical agents are a last resort, but the projectile ones are not to be used to shoot into a crowd. Also they did at least follow the protocol by announcing the assembly illegal and giving the protesters ample warning.
[–]iffraz 11 points12 points13 points 6 months ago
Unless our justice system responds to this, it will keep happening. If it keeps happening, more people will realize that they cannot peacefully protest anymore. When people realize they cannot peacefully protest anymore, they will reason that violence will be more effective, and will force media recognition. Once they reason that violence will be more effective, riots will break out country wide, and it will be the true test of freedom in this country. I do not condone violence, I don't want it to become like this, but if this is the way they react to a peaceful protest, they think that they can simply silence protestors, we are not free anymore. As far reaching as it seems, this may be the early steps into a civil war. (unfathomable in this country but don't think it would never happen)
[–]holizz 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
We had a lot of protests that were violently suppressed by the police in the last few years in the UK. Then one time they violently suppressed a protest and it turned into a riot.
[–]nexlux 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
It's retarded that they would throw shit in on protestors trying to help the wounded. I don't care when cops try to restore order, but when they create chaos, inflict pain and watch a bleeding citizen, that evokes everything but "Protect and Serve".
About time folks start realizing they aren't protecting you.
[–]BlahJay 23 points24 points25 points 6 months ago
I'm genuinely impressed with the response by Reddit users with regards to the Scott Olsen incident, but it frightens me to think about what situation Scott would be in if he didn't have the internet to get his story out considering the traditional media's response.
[–]mokha1 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
I may or may not agree with everything that OWS stands for. BUT, the way that authorities have handled the situation makes me, a 1%'er, kind of aware of how much the government isn't working FOR the people anymore.
[–]JizzblasterBoris 101 points102 points103 points 6 months ago
I think this is going to lead to a total reinvigoration of the OWS movement.
I don't live in the States, but I'm curious to know if it's got people talking like it should. Are the people who were doubting it starting to see how ridiculous the social order is, now that the police have fired on peaceful protestors with above military grade weaponry for aiding a fucking US Marine who was shot in the god damn head?
I don't want to see it get violent, but this is seriously fucked up, and if people aren't pulling their heads out of the sand left right and centre over this shit, I don't know what will make them do that.
[–][deleted] 61 points62 points63 points 6 months ago
there are so many sources of information, so much twisting of the facts, many(or most) people get tired and just believe what they want to
[–]shamwow62 11 points12 points13 points 6 months ago
Honestly, I haven't heard anyone talk about the OWS movement outside of Reddit and my close friends. No one cares because they think that it isn't going to change anything. I don't know if I blame them either because really the big wigs on Wall street and in washington don't give two shits about any of us.
[–]cryopyre 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
There seems to be a generational rift. Those who were born and spent a large time growing up with the internet and its abundance of 3rd party sources, and then those who rely entirely on corporate media.
The latter has a predictably poor view on OWS. Even the so called "liberal media" has an anti-OWS spin, and the far right media has an incredibly negative view. They have been convinced that the OWS protesters are composed entirely of lazy hippies who want a strong government to give free hand outs. Many of us are libertarians, be they socialist libertarians or capitalist libertarians, and neither want big government. The others are typically social democrats, a position which is also terribly misrepresented on all corporate frequencies.
The pre-internet generation is a dangerous one. Their only access to information tends to be corporate media, and that means they will receive a heavily distorted view, no matter what. As I said before, I have a legitimate fear of the Tea-Partiers becoming proto-fascist at the whim of their corporate benefactors.
[–]ChillyWillster 14 points15 points16 points 6 months ago
Told some rightwing friends of mine about the incident; initially i misread the post and told them he was killed. They didn't give a shit.
[–]PaladinZ06 26 points27 points28 points 6 months ago
You cannot reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason into in the first place.
But it doesn't mean you shouldn't try with perseverance.
[–]dbp13 25 points26 points27 points 6 months ago
"In 2005, The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm." Via wikipedia
Apart from maintaining order and service functions, the purpose of policing is the investigation of suspected criminal activity and the referral of the results of investigations and of suspected criminals to the courts. Law enforcement, to varying degrees at different levels of government and in different agencies, is [1] also commonly charged with the responsibilities of deterring criminal activity and of preventing the successful commission of crimes in progress; the service and enforcement of warrants, writs and other orders of the courts.
Law enforcement agencies are also involved in providing first response to emergencies and other threats to public safety; the protection of certain public facilities and infrastructure; the maintenance of public order; the protection of public officials; and the operation of some correctional facilities (usually at the local level).
I don't know about yall, but as I was brought up the purpose of the police was to protect the public from wrongdoers and evildoers. Apparently, the police are nothing more than a government agency to protect those that govern. I think some of this protest should go towards limiting police activity, ability, and possibly mandate that they protect the CITIZENS of the country, not just the GOVERNING officials.
[–]harlows_monkeys 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
Here is a summary of that 2005 case, for those who would like a more accurate interpretation.
[–]belunan 91 points92 points93 points 6 months ago
This will get buried...but I have to say it.
How the hell did this become a debate over who started shit first? The politicians sent the cops. Lots of them.
Against what? A sit-in full of people with voices, signs and tents.
And the cops came wearing battle armor and carrying shields.
Are you fucking kidding me?
[–]DefinitelyRelephant 24 points25 points26 points 6 months ago
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.
[–]fuzzby 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
Some part of my humanity would like to hope we learn from our history.
Sigh. I'm so glad I don't have kids...
[–]skybluskyblue 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
They fired rubber bullets. These can kill if they hit the head in the right area.
[–][deleted] 6 months ago
[deleted]
[–]captainenema 5 points6 points7 points 6 months ago
Maybe it is just a bit obvious to me but if the presence of the police is causing agitation and disharmony, why not pull back the riot police and just leave a token presence of regular police?
Just enough regular patrol cars to keep order and assist the public without having some huge imposing presence of hostile armed riot police. When you suit up with that kind of gear and you are going in expecting trouble, the chances are you will find trouble even if you have to make it happen.
Dunno.. seems kind of obvious to me. Pull the riot cops back about a block and have them take a seat and wait to see if they really are needed.
I saw it all the time in South Korea. Mind you South Korea isn't exactly a stellar example for police/citizen interactions, but I did see large groups of riot cops sitting in formations quietly around the corner from large protests. The Protesters knew the riot police were close by, but they weren't right there up in their faces seething with anger and ready to bash heads in.
I reckon though if the protests I watched in Korea turned violent the riot police would have gone through them like a hot knife through butter, but I never saw it happen.
But yeah, not the best example, just the only one I've personally seen.
[–]Terker_jerbs 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
The claim seems to be that the camps are unsafe. I guess now we know what that means.
[–]ZachariahPajarito 19 points20 points21 points 6 months ago
I don't pay attention to any of this 99% bullshit, it's just not my thing. But IT DOESN'T MATTER. The fact is, these people have the RIGHT to protest peacefully, and the police are using organized, aggressive force against them. This isn't freedom. This is abuse, this is corruption. We need to take action and stop rolling over. I'm going down town to join you all right now. I've seen this gone on too long. I don't care what you were fighting for, I'm fighting for you now.
[–]choooo 30 points31 points32 points 6 months ago
saw this comment under the video: "Bunch of socialists who are hell bent on bringing sharia law to the United States of America." - i mean like...who the hell can be THAT stupid?
[–]c0damra 42 points43 points44 points 6 months ago
People that watch fox news.
[–]upandrunning 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
And listen to Rush Limbaugh.
[–]robeph 5 points6 points7 points 6 months ago
Socialism supports sharia law? I'm pretty sure there's a whole extreme equality ideology thing within socialism that violates pretty much the majority of sharia law. I mean most socialist party's proclaim feminism ideology (equality) within their tenets and platforms. There is no lack of idiots in the world, this is for sure...it seems most of them are crowded around fox news. I really wish there was a law defining "news" a la canada's.
[–]Nyaan 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
thatsthejoke.jpg
[–][deleted] 19 points20 points21 points 6 months ago
As someone who was present at the moment of attack, I have to say it is not as black and white as it seems. To be fair, the group was swearing and taunting the police. Some non-affiliated people where saying death threats and throwing things. But on the other side of things, the "counter attack" was a display of what Oakland police is about. If you dont live here, its hard to explain, but it is an overarching mentality of fear about them.
[–]Raaagh 22 points23 points24 points 6 months ago
OWS needs to self-police. Someone write a published charter for security protocols within the group - and put it up on signs and flyers.
Eg if someone is violent towards another human being, there should be a civilian arrest - and the offender should be delivered to the police. Destruction of property should be looked at, with allowances for dismantlement of barricades.
[–]The_Dane 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
This is very tricky, but the police element needs to be left out entirely. What needs to happen is to create a culture of strong, stoic, positive pacifism. If belligerents disrupt the message, they are put in line by power of majority disapproval. It's crazy how powerful group approval is, most will fall in line or leave of their own volition.
How to create this culture is one of the biggest challenges of the movement, but it is far from impossible. It simply requires vigilance and positive thinking.
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 6 months ago
While I agree, as soon as the protesters turn from anything but absolute-passive, the protesters insta-lose.
You will be vilified for it. Remember Martin Luther King.
DO NOT USE VIOLENCE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
[–]Chemfire 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago*
Coming from a family where both of my parents were NYSP officers, I have to say that this disgusts me. I have discussed this happening with my parents, and they both have agreed that this is now how things should have went down, and that police officer who deliberately threw the flashbang should be severely reprimanded for such an act of obvious violence.
[–]ohtheaudacity_ 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
i fully support this notion. This is not a battle against our country, it is a battle for our country and bearing flags will eliminate any confusion there may be pertaining to the matter.
[–]Banana_Overdrive 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Don't make conflict between cops and protestors. Don't have this protest turn into a cops vs. protestors war. What happened was not right, and somebody has to be face the responsibility for what happened to Scott Olsen.... but don't turn this into the FOCUS. It'll make us look bad.
What sickens me is that the government would issue FORCE on protestors in a country boasting freedom of speech and freedom of assembly in its CONSTITUTION... yet the government will NOT issue FORCE to punish and end obvious and blatant corporate corruption.
[–]Radical3 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
Nancy O'Malley is a few months in to a 4 year term. Any locals might want to direct their efforts towards Rep. Barbara Lee, who is up for re-election in June 2012. If anybody can find good email addresses, please share
[–]saulbadman 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
If you blame a few cops you really miss the point. Ask why police have become militarized. Follow the money.
[–]Sowy 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
In America it's OK to protest as groups like the Wesboro, but it's not ok to protest against wall street.
[–]bornonredside 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
this is nothing but oldfashion style of work for police in any of ex behind the iron curtain countries. same things are happening here today and obviously knowledge sharing is in progress...your police is learning fast, must say...
[–]imagineinsanity 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
WHY. WHY ARE WE BEING NONVIOLENT? I don't at all get it.
[–]redditsuxass 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Because if we are nonviolent, the cops won't have an excuse to brutalize us. Oh, wait.
[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
Protesters: Cops are not the enemy
Cops: Protesters are not the enemy
[–]Deformed_Crab 13 points14 points15 points 6 months ago
Only one of those groups shoots the other in the face though.
the government/state has a monopoly on violence, don't forget it.
I'm sure some of these cops don't want to do this, they do it to put food on the table for their families. But some cops are just vindictive.. like that nefarious cunt who threw the flash bang at the people protecting Olsen. And I know Oakland is a pretty rough place, cops should protect themselves; but using force unprovoked? SIGH...it makes me sick.
[–]holizz 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
{{citation-needed}}
[–]joshuanotjosh 14 points15 points16 points 6 months ago
The protesters are unarmed; firing on unarmed citizens for exercising their right to free assembly and protest is unforgivable. Period.
[–]LittleFucker 29 points30 points31 points 6 months ago
The fact is the protesters are a mixed bunch. The overwhelming majority are peaceful, however, there are a select few that have chosen to use violence to express themselves. AT THAT POINT, NO MEMBER OF THE GROUP IS SAFE BECAUSE THIS GIVES THE POLICE THE RIGHT TO RESPOND WITH FORCE! SO PLEASE, REMAIN NON-VIOLENT IF YOU DECIDE TO ATTEND THE O.W.S. PROTESTS NO MATTER WHAT!
[–]PaladinZ06 20 points21 points22 points 6 months ago
How does that fit with tossing a flashbang at a group and a downed civilian that you took an oath to protect? If the protestors were attacking the downed civilian and the police used the flashbang to disperse so they could rush in and provide emergency medical aid before the guy died, then maybe but that's absolutely not what happened.
[–]Se7en_speed 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
You do realize a flashbang that close to someone can actually kill them right? it's still an explosive, and if it is close enough to you it can kill you
[–]chunk3ymonk3e 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
Same goes for cops. A few bad apples make the whole group looks bad. the cops are just doing their Job and they don't want things like this to turn violent unless its pushed that way.
[–]PaladinZ06 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
True, but you cannot do your job if you turn a blind eye to bad conduct and criminal acts that are in direct violation of the oath to PROTECT.
[–]Bazing1980 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
You people trying to ratchet up rhetoric to make it sound like those police officers are all some evil group that did everything with no provocation, are not helping anyone.
[–]loswaga26 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
Well said. these idiots are doing no one any favors, least of all themselves.
[–]turistainc 67 points68 points69 points 6 months ago
This single despicable act is worse than the combined acts of all Occupy movements all over the country combined. Class warfare indeed.
[–]bonochromatic 89 points90 points91 points 6 months ago
Stop it.
With this kind of attitude, you run the risk of deflecting attention away from Wall Street where it rightfully belongs and putting that attention on the police instead.
We are not protesting the police. We are protesting Wall Street and what it stands for. The more we talk about "despicable acts" the less attention we pay to the most despicable acts - the theft of our country's future by Wall Street.
Let's deal with this issue and get back to the matter at hand - Wall Street. I'm sure Olsen would agree that he shouldn't be derailing the entire OWS movement and deflecting its attention somewhere else.
[–]DoctorVark 58 points59 points60 points 6 months ago
Here in Spain, inside the "Ocupa La Plaza" movement, we created some sort of differents committees for situations like this.
We had our "legal committee" to work on this kind of situations. Inside it, we had voluntary lawyers and other civil liberties activists trying to manage things like: writing requested legal petitions to the government to be able to demonstrate, helping the "media committee" to write public statements with a robust legal base, sueing the involved people in wrongdoings and supporting our legal rights in general.
I think this is an intelligent approach to the problem, so the big group of protesters can focus on the main problem while the "legal comittee" can work with something they know in the way they know it will have some effect. It's sad, but the reality is that complaining without following the right way tends to be useless, so It's better to let the experts to do this work
In any case, you need to organize yourself creating this kind of informal committees or work groups. You need things like "media intermediaries", "public relations & advertising" people to create more and better ads and propaganda, "translation" to spread your message in other languages, "volunteering" to coordinate new voluntaries who want to help doing something, "internet broadcasting" to coordinate hashtags/forums/websites, "internal coordination" to coordinate between the groups, "external coordination" to create and/or communicate to other groups in other states and countries, and so on... always try to search the help of other professionals devoted to your cause. That will help you.
[–]bonochromatic 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
Upvote this guy! This is probably the most articulate, organized and thought-out approach to dealing with this kind of situation that I've read so far.
The important thing is to make sure that your committees remain in very close communication; otherwise we run the risk of being "divided and conquered."
[–]FullSail 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
Well it doesn't make sense to ignore atrocities simply because they might steal some thunder from Wall Street.
[–]London_Bridge 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
THANK YOU!!! Bring this comment to the top!!! OWS will derail it's self if we don't remain focused on wallstreet.
[–]DefinitelyRelephant 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Furthermore, who does everyone expect to keep the peace once Wall Street is dealt with?
Show some fucking forethought.
[–]Cridec 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
CALL HER
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
is reddit the police? Can reddit arrest anyone? No. So why are you telling us to arrest those cops. now? Go complain to someone in a position to make what you want happen.
[–]theeagle1 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago*
I don't care if anyone was throwing paint or water bottles... That does not merritt a response like that.
[–]dorisfrench 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
I don't think it was good for the guy who was passed out on the ground to be tear gassed again.
[–]hhh333 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
If the protesters get violent, this will only escalate the police violence.
Unfortunately in the violence department the police will always win, the protesters will quickly lose the public support and there will be many more injuried, if not deaths.
If the protesters stay non-violent, the police actions will not have any legitimacy and the public support will only grow bigger. With a little chance, even the police and the army will begin to support the protesters.
So yeah, you should care.
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 6 months ago
:46 sec in the video.. Looks taller than the rest.. He was also pointing his weapon and leaning over the railing taking aim. He stopped taking aim after they came to help.. Then he sneaked a FB or some sort of bomb in there. Looks like he was trying to be inconspicuous by the demeanor.
[–]Miguelerbee 10 points11 points12 points 6 months ago*
The man you see injured was also a U.S. Marine that had served in the Mid-East. The latest report I have seen in the Bay Area was that he was seriously injured, some reports even say he is in a medically induced coma due to brain swelling. Related: http://i.imgur.com/yGfyU.jpg That photo was put up by a fellow Marine. I don't know if they know one another.
[–]askmenothingjk 11 points12 points13 points 6 months ago
Hope this comment doesnt get buried, but I expect if there was 0 footage of things being thrown at police then the 'protestor confirming it as happening' was likely planted by police.
[–]_ShitJustGotReal_ 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
I still can't believe this hasn't been dealt with in the correct manner. What the hell is going on with our justice system?
[–]errorflux 5 points6 points7 points 6 months ago
I feel sorry for both Scott Olsen and the cop who did it. Let's hope the future brings better tidings for all of us.
[–]badsong 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago
The OWS movement needs to have a policy of non violence. If any of these guidelines are violated the entire crowd should place them under citizen's arrest and hand them over to the cops. Why can't this be done?
[–]mexicodoug 5 points6 points7 points 6 months ago
Go there and do it. Nobody is stopping you. Plenty who are already there would support you.
Do it!
[–]billbacon 23 points24 points25 points 6 months ago
I believe people are being intentionally ignorant. Nobody can produce proof that the protesters were throwing rocks and bottles prior to this assault, and yet they keep repeating it.
[–]CrabBisque 11 points12 points13 points 6 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA
One of your protesters.
[–]Jinzii 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
Regardless off protesters throwing rocks or bottles, shooting tear gas is like bringing a gun to a knife fight. I have trouble believing that escalating the violence in a situation is in the best interest of the police. The worst part is that the cop who shot Olsen will see little to no punishment as a result. There is no consequences for corruption and brutality within our police force.
[–]jvaughn24 22 points23 points24 points 6 months ago
oh my god dude, fuck that cop.
[–]dangolo 20 points21 points22 points 6 months ago
Him and everyone up the chain. Here's how unconscionable his act was: http://www.businessinsider.com/marine-with-crowd-control-training-points-out-oakland-used-methods-prohibited-in-war-zones-2011-10
Add Mayor Jean Quan to your list of those to rage at too, she authorized the 500 cop strike: http://www.americablog.com/2011/10/next-time.html
[–]th3pack 34 points35 points36 points 6 months ago
I didn't realize how bad the act was until I saw the video. You never know exactly how things went down from reading articles/stories alone, but seeing the video just made me very angry. There's no doubt from that video about how brutal tossing that flashbang was.
[–]JizzblasterBoris 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago
Yes, fuck that particular cop. Fuck his superiors for ordering him and his fellow officers to fire upon the protestors, but be careful before you say "fuck all the cops, they are all pigs". There needs to be some serious reform with regards to the police system in America and the world.
Go listen TAL #414 - Episode, Transcript
The second story done details how the essence of police work is perverted when you try to use numeric measures to calculate how just a society is. I think there's a lot of good philosophy about how police should operate, but very little of it is followed, sadly.
I honestly can only hope that the OWS movement rectifies that, and starts making people less interested in stats and more interested in integrating politics into the community instead of keeping it locked inside the halls of power.
[–]pants6000 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
See the way that the other cops take down and cuff the guy who fired at the group of people who came in to help the wounded?
That's right, fuck all cops.
[–]sumdog 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
This has to stop before there's a massacre. We need accountability, not only from banks, but from cops.
For too long they've stood together in the face of the law. In that kind of profession, mistakes cost the lives of innocents.
[–]yawningangel 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago*
So the protestors sat around for days upon end ,then they decided to riot all of a sudden..for sure they werent provoked into it..
Edit..
I have never been a huge fan of the US as a global entity..
And not that my opinion counts at all..but seeing good American people stand up against all that i have ever seen wrong with the country..i feel proud for those folk..and for humanity..
[–]thatguy314159 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
The problem is that these movements always contain "bad apples" that attempt to do everything within their power to provoke the police. We cannot have tensions between police and communities rise, it will just lead to more violence, and since these movements always try to mischaracterize the actions of the state. You can't attack only the state for these actions, they are a product of both the police and the community, it is unfair to attack only one.
[–]ShanePorter2012 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
America has always been a place of overreaction. When someone is coming after the way we do things we always have the same response: crush them. This tactic is just starting to come out in these Occupy protests. Honestly I’m surprised it took so long. It is imperative that these protests keep on happening no matter what the cost. Not to show what our cops and our government is willing to do to our own citizens, but because it is creating a conversation about how this Plutonomy has failed our peoples. The conversation is the only thing that will change the future. If the protests keep on becoming more violent that is the price us Americans are going to have to pay for this conversation to intensify.
[–]Kamikrazy 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
as a drun l ,am o agree
[–]DeSaad 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
Oh hey, I'm open minded and democratic.
My group is supposed to be the good guys.
When someone from my group acts like an asshole it's an isolated incident, you can't blame all of us for the actions of one jack-ass.
However, DID YOU SEE WHAT THAT ONE GUY FROM THE OTHER GROUP DID? THAT PROVES THAT ALL PEOPLE IN THE OTHER GROUP ARE EVIL AND THEY SHOULD DIE!!!
Did you like that? Did it seem reasonable to you? Because both sides act like that.
STOP IT.
There are clearly some particular assholes in both sides. Both sides are mostly good in nature.
Let's take the assholes away from both our sides out of the equation, they help no one and only make the rest of us look bad.
[–]y0y0y0 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
if the mob gets provoked into doing something stupid, the police wins.. since they "control" and not protect the people their agenda will allways contain violence and harassment.. it's like fighting a younger sibling.. if you hit him, its your fault.. if he hits you, its still your fault..
the only thing that works extremely well, and we can see that in the really "controlled" countries as for example china is, passive resistance.. it then will be more obvious which of the policemen is out there to hurt ppl..
sorry for typo
[–]redraevyn 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
Arrest those cops. Now. Or I'm going to make more angry posts on reddit!
[–]LeRandomGuy 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
But who watches the watchers!?
[–]alanlawson123 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
I am not understand to your question
[–]cnytyo 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
This is how you handle protests
[–]brokenyard 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Can anyone comment on this? Some conservatives apparently think they're justifying the incident by pointing this out.
[–]Terker_jerbs 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
He was awarded seven medals during his four-year tour, including the Navy-Marine Corps Achievement Award. He may, or may not, have hated the Marine Corps, but he was no slacker.
[–]UsaPitManager 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
The police want to keep their jobs. They should be protecting the protestors......but those in charge....the 1percent....have confused these officers...have led them to believe otherwise......they too will wake up......and then we'll be fighting the National Guard.......slow going for the revolution.....but it won't stop
[–]gentlytakemyskull 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
This is not going to end well. This isn't the 60s. It's naive to expect peace and nonviolence from a culture that glorifies war, violence, oppression, and focused hatred of generalized groups for the sake of politicization and legitimizing these things.
People are going to be harmed by the government that's supposed to comprise them, and the right-wing will applaud it.
Realism folks...power and wealth breed violence for the maintenance of the status quo. Tent cities and kumbayas won't stop that.
[–]tk1422 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Every action has an opposite reaction, but nobody deserved to get a 40mm gas canister to the head. It was unconscionable for that officer to fire so low into the crowd - it was a deliberate act of malice and they need to be tried for his/her actions.
Police in riot gear can withstand water bottles and paint, so the use of teargas and flash bangs were unnecessary. Had they wanted to move the lawbreaking protesters, a water cannon would have sufficed. Even police on horseback would have moved people. Over zealous use of force - they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law just as the illegal acts of a few bad apple protesters.
[–]bryakles 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
wtf? watching that made me cry like glen beck
[–]lpisme 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Has anybody attempted to contact Miss O'Malley?
I'd like a few pointers before making my call today.
[–]TeddiRevolution 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
-Arrest someone for their actions
-Cops
Pick one.
I just put my message into the office.
Please folks remember to keep it professional. Express disdain tastefully but make sure you reiterate the fact that we, the many, will continue calling and supporting the arrest of these officers.
We are a powerful bunch and we can do this.
[–]Deacon 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Arrest them? With what? The only people who can arrest them are other police officers. Which is exactly the flaw in the system.
In other news, fuck the police.
[–]robroy911zx 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Wrong. I don't agree with how this was handled at all but you cannot really think violence against police should go unchecked. Once an act of aggression occurs the protest is no longer peaceful. People on both sides have to keep their heads otherwise we are all fucked! Shooting into the crowd is reprehensible and even criminal, but once the violence starts all bets are off. I will get blasted for this but not all the cops there should be punished. Stop group thinking before you pervert a peaceful movement and turn it into an angry mob. Losing our heads will cause more citizens to bleed. Hold them accountable, but keep you heads!
[–]SandCake 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
So since people were throwing things like water bottles it gives the police the right to throw tear gas, shoot rubber bullets and throw flash bangs? Yeah, right.
[–]BirdyWithWings 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
When they scream for a medic.... shudders
[–]Kasonic 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Oh my god, the end of that video just made me burst into tears with no warning. What a shock to the system.
[–]ForIamMany 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
I agree the incident was reprehensible regarding Scott Olsen and the protesters trying to help him, as they were attacked by the rogue police officer. The video of that is shocking; the cop will be identifiable and should be brought up on charges. But look at the same video. Just about the time that Scott is discovered on the ground, you can see a protester lobbing a teargas cannister back over the police line. As the rogue cop begins to move, you can see the gas stream from behind the cops. It is likely this that prompted the retaliation. And from the cop's perspective, I don't think he could see Scott on the ground. He might have thought the group around Olsen was challenging the barricade, as they are right by it. Likely he thought this group lobbed the teargas at police.
[–]PuppetMan 7 points8 points9 points 6 months ago
I don't care IF protesters were violent towards the police
And you're ready to rally supporters around this concept how?
[–]corby315 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
How could you not care if the protesters became violent towards cops and then support OWS. The whole point is to get the message heard in a non violent manner. All it took was one violent protester(although I'm sure there were more than one) to set off the one cop to go overboard.
This should not be about the cops v. protesters. When it becomes that the initial message gets lost . Although I agree the cop who did this went too far I do not think the protesters should be in the clear. If you are asked to move, them fucking move in a non violent manner. All this cop hating is playing right into the conservatives hands, which completely voids the main reason these protests were started.
[–]Terker_jerbs 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago
Until we know there were no agents-provocateur in the crowd, you are just making assumptions.
[–]Madfoot713 4 points5 points6 points 6 months ago
sure. prosecute them. now, why do you keep protesting the banks, when it's obviously government that's the problem?
[–]billybuckner 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
there are two sides to every story. i would have liked to have
1) seen a longer clip;
2) had various camera perspectives. Then, one can draw conclusions.
[–]nepidae 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago
Wrong. If protesters were violent towards the police then the situation is completely different.
They may have been wrong to fire upon him, but they would definetely have an excuse.
Look, I fucking hate police brutality and how they will do almost anything to hide a crime by one of their own, but riots are not protect speech, and nor should they be.
If you think that people should be able to be violent with no repercussions then you are living in a fantasy world.
Maybe we are at the point where violence is needed but personally I do not believe so. I'm not convinced even the non-violent protesters know what they are doing and I know a lot of other people think the same. So when I see them going to violence now I just dismiss the entire thing as rage/jealousy/etc.
Its actually pretty easy for me to dislike both the cops and the protesters.
[–]boredjesse 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago
I feel like non-violent protesting was made up to insure that people wouldn't truly revolt.
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