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[–]Craysh 125 points126 points ago

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May I suggest an option showing how many temp bans a user has? With a subreddit that has several mods not everyone can keep track of all the problem children :P

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points ago

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Like the leper colony on SomethingAwful?

[–]ccm139 3 points4 points ago

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Yeah not a bad idea.

[–]violentacrez 63 points64 points ago

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This differs from a regular subreddit ban in that the banned user isn't notified and can continue to post and comment, but these posts and comments will not be visible to other users. The idea is that this will be effective in stopping abuse because it won't "tip off" the banned user causing them to start posting/commenting from a different account.

This exact same logic applies to the normal, permanent bans.

If I understand correctly: We give a problem user up to 3 silent time-outs. They don't know they're banned, so they have no reason to change their behaviour during those silent time-outs. After the three are up, the user has no clue he's even been banned, so presumably he's going to continue his behaviour. At that point, we use the existing ban, and he switches accounts. The cycle begins anew.

What's the thinking behind not allowing mods to permanently shadow-ban them, thus breaking this cycle?

[–]solidwhetstone 14 points15 points ago

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Agreed. I too am curious what the logic behind not giving total shadowban control to mods if they can already ban members.

[–]skookybird 15 points16 points ago

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Actually, while I’m sure no mod would disagree that shadow banning would be a useful tool for them, I can see a lot of mods misusing it. I’m hesitant.

[–]solidwhetstone 5 points6 points ago

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No more than they can misuse regular old banning right?

[–]skookybird 19 points20 points ago

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Yes, but unjust shadowbans would really suck. A really, really horrible mod of a sizable reddit can conceivably seriously change the direction of the discourse according to his liking much more easily without being detected.

[–]rockon4life45 16 points17 points ago

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Imagine /r/politics with shadowbans....

[–]aukxsona 2 points3 points ago

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Like violent acres.... he bans way too much for ridiculous things.

[–]Ienpw_III 9 points10 points ago

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I can say that the subreddit I moderate, /r/mcservers has many spammers with several accounts.

A shadow-ban would be useful in these cases. I can see how this might open up problems with mod abuse in other subreddits, though, so I understand why admins and redditors might be against it.

[–]Yandere 4 points5 points ago

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Would it be reasonable to have a petitioning system to perma-shadow ban someone? Make it so no single mod can give one, but if it's generally agreeable/obvious someone needs it then so be it.

Perhaps akin to how the total ban of users who violate ToS are handled?

[–]Ienpw_III 1 point2 points ago

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That sounds like a great idea to me.

[–]nemec 7 points8 points ago

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Most problem users are people like trolls, posting hateful comments to incite other users. When temp banned, none of their posts will get the precious attention they thrive on and they're more likely to give up and move elsewhere.

[–]sunshine-x 5 points6 points ago

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you nailed it. This is no different than disciplining a toddler really.. not knowing there was a consequence (ie shadow ban) has no impact to them and their behaviour. it just reduces symptoms of the behaviour affecting other users.

[–]someone13 4 points5 points ago

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I think that this is a better idea, actually - with this method, when you temp-ban someone, it allows you to notify them at your own discretion. Perhaps a checkbox that says "notify user" or something like that might be helpful, but I'm sure being able to both notify and not will be useful.

[–]DEADB33F 1 point2 points ago

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Yes, but it would only be useful if they were notified at the end of their ban.

[–]Anomander 1 point2 points ago

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I dunno, man, it's not like a verbal warning is in any way prevented. It's just not automatically generated.

Warn them the conduct is unacceptable the first time.

Use the ban the second time.

They've been told, they know they were doing something wrong, they did it anyway. The get stifled, and they're still not skirting the ban by swapping to an alt account.

[–]mikemcg 0 points1 point ago

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Something should come with a temp ban. Perhaps their comments in that sub are downvoted slightly over time?

[–]chejrw 18 points19 points ago

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Sounds good to me. Will their posts become visible once their ban expires, or remain invisible indefinitely?

Also, 24 hours seems arbitrarily short to me.

[–]bsimpson[S] 14 points15 points ago

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Their posts and comments are hidden forever unless a mod manually approves them.

[–]chejrw 6 points7 points ago

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perfect.

[–]RetardVomitPussyCunt 24 points25 points ago

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Nice idea pal, but extend it for a week, sometimes a 'time out' isn't enough

Also while you're at it, can you give us the oppitunity to tell people why they're being banned?

[–]DragonHunter 20 points21 points ago

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It's a ninja ban. Why would you want to tell them about it?

[–]RetardVomitPussyCunt 10 points11 points ago

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Because this will save people from going "OMG YOU BANNED ME, FACIST! KILL THE MODS! DOWN WITH THEM!!"

[–]DragonHunter 15 points16 points ago

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With a ninja ban the user isn't supposed to know. If the user knows then he'll message you (or the mods) and you can reply with information. Ideally, though, the user doesn't know he's banned and just thinks nobody cares what he has to say.

[–]RetardVomitPussyCunt 6 points7 points ago

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Heh, fair enough

[–]ASFDOKJOI3123 3 points4 points ago

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Trust me, this will happen no matter how much you explain, how open you are, and how justified the ban is.

[–]emo_samurai 0 points1 point ago

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Or unjustified.

[–]Confucius_says 1 point2 points ago

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the user posting will likely just think his comments are being ignored and/or being picked up by the spam filter.

[–]rockon4life45 0 points1 point ago

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Yeah, not the ninja ban, but on the regular bans that'd be cool.

[–]nitesmoke 8 points9 points ago

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Also while you're at it, can you give us the oppitunity to tell people why they're being banned?

That defeats the entire purpose of this. This is for banning people without them knowing about it. If you want them to know, ban them as you normally would, then send them a pm explaining why. The entire point of this is to be able to ban people without them knowing it, so they don't just switch accounts to continue harassing your subreddit.

[–]RetardVomitPussyCunt 5 points6 points ago

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I meant like when someone gets permabanned :P

[–]nitesmoke 1 point2 points ago

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Ahh, I see.

[–]silentmage 8 points9 points ago

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If you temp-ban someone you could always just send them a PM about it.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]RetardVomitPussyCunt 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah this is what i meant pretty much :)

[–]Shade00a00 1 point2 points ago

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How about a full week per month, split up however mods choose?

[–]insomniasexx 3 points4 points ago

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This is important. I think reasons for bans should be added for all banning, even if it is only visible to other mods.

We had a problem with questionable modding decisions on icanhazchat. Requiring people to add a reason to why they're banning makes mods more self aware. Letting the other mods see the reasons for the ban works well too. Obviously doesn't work if you have rogue team of mods, but that is much more rare than a single mod.

[–]V2Blast 1 point2 points ago

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Well, yeah, if all the mods are "evil", it's not really a rogue team. Plus then the subreddit's doomed anyway.

[–]Dead_Rooster 2 points3 points ago

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Nice idea pal, but extend it for a week, sometimes a 'time out' isn't enough

Agree. To those of us who spend a significant amount of time on Reddit 24 hours seems like a long time to be banned, but a troll may not post that frequently. At least a week would be more ideal.

[–]your_favorite_buddy 35 points36 points ago

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For clarity why not call it a probation?

[–]Confucius_says 19 points20 points ago

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how about call it being muted?

[–]AtheismFTW 11 points12 points ago

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"time out" lol

[–]TycoBrahe 11 points12 points ago

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We can start an r/timeout and send all the delinquents there until they learn their lesson.

[–]ChingShih 9 points10 points ago

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And the only flair users can get is "dunce cap."

[–]syuk 3 points4 points ago

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r/naughtycorner

[–]aukxsona 2 points3 points ago

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I like the way you think!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points ago

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Shunned if you follow IRC!

[–]stanfan114 6 points7 points ago

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The correct term is "shadow ban".

[–]your_favorite_buddy 2 points3 points ago

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That already exists though. This would be different because it could be handed out by mods and would be specific to a subreddit.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]redtaboo 4 points5 points ago

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This is just a straight ban for a day.

Not really, if you are actually banned from a reddit you aren't able to comment or submit. This really is like a probation, I think. The user is able to make comments and post, but they have to be fished out of the filter for anyone other than the mods to see them.

[–]tick_tock_clock 1 point2 points ago

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Perhaps it doesn't correspond exactly, but it's a convenient term to use to describe it.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points ago

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I've typically seen this called a "hellban".

[–]Hibernator 8 points9 points ago

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This feature seems to combine two new concepts--a temporary ban, and an invisibility cloak. I would much rather deal with spammers by making them invisible than by banning them, but I don't want it to be temporary. Please consider making the upper limit infinite instead of 24 hours (and maybe calling it something else, like "silent ban").

[–]Craysh 9 points10 points ago

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I believe they call it a shadow ban when the admins do it.

[–]Hibernator 5 points6 points ago

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But that's site-wide, and this would only apply to a subreddit. Another name might help avoid confusion between the three different ways of banning.

[–]Peroxyde 4 points5 points ago

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You want to give Subreddit mods the ability to shadow ban? What could go wrong?

[–]Hibernator 7 points8 points ago

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That's what bsimpson is already proposing. Note that his feature only allows a mod to shadow ban an account in his/her subreddit. All I'm asking for is a (much) higher time limit ceiling.

[–]Peroxyde 3 points4 points ago

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Yes, which effectively turns it into the shadow ban power Admins have, which they are trusted to use sparingly. I don't think I could have that same trust for most subreddit mods. I oppose this idea completely, not just your proposed alteration.

[–]thebeefytaco 7 points8 points ago

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I love the idea and I think it's a good step forward.

I posted this in ideasfortheadmins, but I guess it got ignored so I'll try again here. I think it'd be great if reddit implemented a warning systems for the mods. Not every little mistake should be a bannable offence, so I think it's okay to remind people of the rules and basically give them a warning. But if they've been warned in the past, there's really no excuse for continuing to violate the rules of the subreddit. However, I have no way of knowing if other mods have given warnings to other people.

All you'd need is a little warn button for the mod UI and then keep track of the number of warnings or violations someone has next to their name (only visible to the mods of course). Click on the number and it will take you to a page that shows where and why they were cited and the mod that did it.

The idea might need some tweaking, but I think it'd help mods do their job better.

[–]gabwyn 7 points8 points ago

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Can the hidden posts and comments from the banned user still be viewed by the moderators, in the same way they see reported items or spam posts?

The reason I'm asking is that occasionally a troll may decide to post something worthwhile or post a worthwhile comment that adds to a discussion, maybe the option to approve these comments/posts (stealthily) would be a good idea.

[–]bsimpson[S] 6 points7 points ago

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Yes. They show up for mods with a removal message indicating which moderator temp banned the user.

[–]redtaboo 1 point2 points ago

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Will that message indicate the removal is part of the temp ban or will it look like a normal removal?

[–]bsimpson[S] 4 points5 points ago

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It says that it's due to a temp ban.

[–]sk3tch 0 points1 point ago

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Do you have an ETA on when this feature will be implemented?

[–]got_milk4 5 points6 points ago

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I like the idea, but I think the ability to not notify users should cross over to the banning interface as well. I deal with users routinely who, upon being banned, create new accounts to continue abusing users and claim the moderators are 'abusing their powers'. It'd be nice to be able to "ninjaban" these users permanently.

[–]MikeOnFire 20 points21 points ago

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Good idea. It would be cool to be able to synthesize votes on their faux posts as well.

[–]Im_probably_drunk 9 points10 points ago

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Exactly... give them a couple ups and a few downs (at random) so they think it's still seen.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points ago

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Agreed. The votes would banish any thoughts of being banned. (should be a net negative though)

[–]rockon4life45 1 point2 points ago

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That wouldn't be good. If you put a troll and time out and he still gets votes, he'll keep trying. If he sees no reaction to the votes he might stop.

Might.

[–]RyJones 6 points7 points ago

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I'd rather the times were expressed in days and had a limit of like a week.

[–]koolkats 5 points6 points ago

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Could we have the ability to make a note of why we banned them that's visible to the other mods?

[–]slapchopsuey 4 points5 points ago

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Definitely this, or some kind of cross-subreddit information flow regarding trouble-makers. With anyone causing the kind of trouble that would rise to the level of a user ban, it will (or should) take some time to see the clear pattern of abuse to get there. If there was information flow, it could reduce the time to arrive at that conclusion, and thus reduce the amount of abuse users/mods/the subreddit receive from that user.

[–]Failcake 4 points5 points ago

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Could you up the max ban time to 72 hours? I think it would be enough time to allow any troll to get bored and stop posting.

[–]sodypop 4 points5 points ago

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Awesome! I think this will be a big help to moderators during certain scenarios, and I like that the ban automatically expires after a designated time so there is no need to remember to remove it. Thanks!

Not to deviate from the subject, but I also hope that this suggestion regarding regular ban notification message system can be implemented at some point too.

[–]bsimpson[S] 2 points3 points ago

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Good idea, I'll look into that one.

[–]HiFructoseCornFeces 2 points3 points ago

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For its intended purpose for regular users, this is great. But any troll that figures out a temporary ban is just going to wait 24 hours to use that account and/or create more accounts. If a temporary ban somehow informed the spam filter of a temporarily banned user's IP address, and automatically marked that IP address's posts as spam, without mods or anyone ever seeing IP addresses, THAT could be a freaking great feature.

[–]calisoca 4 points5 points ago

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Well, I could see a few issues this might cause. For example, roommates who share the same internet connection. Maybe one is a troll and the other is not. Also, sometimes people are trolls on one account while making really great contributions to Reddit on another account.

[–]DEADB33F 5 points6 points ago

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May I suggest adding the ability for mods to leave a reason to for the silent ban which gets auto messaged to the user at the end of their ban period (otherwise how are they meant to learn).

It might also get confusing knowing which mod has banned which users etc, and it'd be handy to know which users have been temp banned previously to make it easier to deal with repeat offenders.

Some kind of moderation event viewer would be great.
This would be a page where moderation events are logged and are visible by other mods... eg.

  • [Timestamp] - [Mod A] approved [Submission X]
  • [Timestamp] - [Mod B] Banned [User A] for [Reason] - [Link to related comment/submission]
  • [Timestamp] - [Mod C] Removed [Submission Y] for [Reason]
  • [Timestamp] - [Mod D] Changed Subreddit description.
  • [Timestamp] - [Mod E] Added [User B] as a moderator.
  • [Timestamp] - [Mod F] Shadow banned [User C] for [X days] for [Reason] - [Link to related comment/submission].

etc.

A list of checkboxes at the top would enable you to filter by event type and hide/view certain types of events. Clicking on a mod or user's name filters by events involving that mod/user.

This would be visible via something like /r/subreddit/modevents, and also via /modevents where it'd show all events for all subreddits you moderate (with each event appended with "in [subreddit name]").

Maybe even have the option to make the event queue public (with usernames hidden on silent bans), for subreddits who want to be extra transparent about mod actions.

I got the idea from a forum I moderate where we coded our own vB plugin to do exactly this. Example of it in action.

[–]bsimpson[S] 3 points4 points ago

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The mod event log is something I'm working on. Thanks for the example.

[–]DEADB33F 2 points3 points ago

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Good to hear it's something that's actively being worked on.
I hope it eventually becomes live as it'll be a really helpful addition.

[–]V2Blast 1 point2 points ago

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Awesome. It's something that definitely would help curtail mod abuse.

[–]V2Blast 0 points1 point ago

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I dunno why you made those first two actual links... Unless it's something RES automatically does or something.

[–]DEADB33F 1 point2 points ago

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Not RES, but yeah, you're pretty close it's a userscript..

[–]Calimhero 9 points10 points ago

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Hey, I suggested that! I'm so happy you guys are implementing it.

Obviously, it is a great idea :)

[–]a1mck 3 points4 points ago

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I think this is a fantastic idea, but what we need, especially for SW, is a direct contact to you the admins to be able to handle really abusive trolls. I find it difficult to know which admin to contact regarding trolls that can potentially push people over the edge to kill themselves. If you could include a direct contact link with a comment box to explain what the situation is, so that everyone is in the loop, then this would be great.

Thanks so much bsimpson for this!!!:-)))))))))))))

[–]V2Blast 1 point2 points ago

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I think they should just hire a "SW-abuse admin" whose job it is to just keep an eye on SW all day. :P

[–]a1mck 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, really...I can't believe all the hours I spend weeding out the trolls!lol

[–]Mike941 4 points5 points ago

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Make the temporary bans last 2 weeks max and keep the 3 temp bans per month and it'll be perfect.

[–]aukxsona 0 points1 point ago

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lol

[–]davidjayhawk 3 points4 points ago

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Yes, this would absolutely be useful. Can I ask why the "shadow ban" capability for mods is being limited to temporary only?

Basically two things are being given to mods here. The first is temporary banning which is basically a convenience making it so that we don't have to remember to go back and manually unban them. The second is the shadow ban which is a great tool for dealing with truly malicious griefers/trolls etc... who currently get a nice notification that it's time to create a new account when they are banned.

I guess I'm just wondering why these two things were combined into one instead of made separate capabilities?

[–]ignatiusloyola 4 points5 points ago

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I am 100% for this. Though I would ask that the temporary ban be extended to maybe 3-4 days.

Another possibility is to have people on an "Approve" list. Physically requiring that a mod approve all of their messages before they get published.

[–]V2Blast 2 points3 points ago

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Name for that list: a "moderated users" list.

[–]Kancho_Ninja 3 points4 points ago

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As someone that recently received a ban from a moderator with no sense of humor, I endorse this idea.

[–]mikkjel 2 points3 points ago

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I like the idea. I guess the only thing I think I might be interested in seeing is the ban being tied to a post or comment, so that there is an underlying and documented reason (generally being an asshole OR not following the subreddit rules).

[–]highTrolla 2 points3 points ago

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Why impose limits on a mod's ability to shadow ban? It's their subreddit, let them do it as much as they please.

[–]brandonclyon 4 points5 points ago

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I really like this idea, it would also help cut down on troll accounts because they won't be fed.

[–]roger_ 3 points4 points ago

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Sounds like this could be useful.

My only suggestion is to make the upper limit be several days (e.g. seven) instead of only one.

[–]drogepirja 2 points3 points ago

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I have a suggestion. Let the users know they were banned, but remove the "these are your moderators!" list from each subreddit. This would theoretically force them to use the more streamlined "message your mods" function, and discourages potential abuse by people who might think message-spamming is a cool way to retaliate.

[–]HideAndSeek 9 points10 points ago

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Make it so.

[–]Vusys 5 points6 points ago

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I'd like a tickbox to make the ban announced to the user. Shadow bans make me feel uneasy.

[–]V2Blast 1 point2 points ago

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You can always PM them yourself.

[–]Lemonegro 4 points5 points ago

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temporary bans can last from 1 to 24 hours

Longer per number of offenses please.

[–]DukeGoogamuke 2 points3 points ago

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Can some kind of notification happen to usernames so that mods can spot who has already been temp-banned?

[–]Raerth 2 points3 points ago

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What's your reasoning behind the limitations?

[–]DragonHunter 2 points3 points ago

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I'd like to see it 3 days, so the user can be ninja banned for the weekend.

[–]XavierMendel 2 points3 points ago

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Could we have an option for X hours, X days, X weeks, or forever?

[–]grondin 2 points3 points ago

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We need some way of dealing with folks creating many throw-away accounts to get around bans. I know the mods won't have access to IP addresses directly, but how about a method of connecting-the-dots from newer accounts to previously banned people.

A mod function that would show (Throwaway-account123) is from the same IP address as (Banned-User-A)

And only for previously banned users - there are legitimate reasons to create an anonymous account that should not be curtailed.

[–]rawveggies 3 points4 points ago

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After reading the comments here I agree this is a useful feature, although I only moderate one small troll and spammer free subreddit so I won't likely use it.

However, I would like to say that I hope it includes the ability for other mods to see which mod it was that used the feature, as I believe it could easily be abused, and other mods could act as a check to ensure the feature is not abused to shadowban users that a mod may personally disagree with.

I used to use fark.com a lot, and I was shadowbanned there, I think, for posting a controversial, but verifiable, statement on the politics tab. I'll never know the exact reasons, but I assume it was done by a mod that personally disagreed with my post. I only knew because my photoshop contest entries stopped getting votes immediately after my controversial post. I stopped using fark, and have never gone back.

I believe this happened to other users there, as well. Considering the massive drop in traffic to fark over the last few years, and according to the users at bannination.com (which was created for users that were banned from fark) the loss of traffic there had to do with the belief in widespread censorship by the mods.

[–]scientologist2 2 points3 points ago*

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Temporary bans should be available up to something like several days, allowing time for emotional hot heads to chill out.

I 've done that, telling a guy to message me after the appropriate period and remind me to reinstate them, along with telling them why they were being banned.

The few days off does some good.

Another option, for admins only, would be to make certain reddits non-accessible at all, just for the truly offensive users. They would go to read the subreddit, and get the notice that they are forbidden access. Again for as certain period of time, or after petition from the moderator on their behalf, or what ever.

[–]phyzome 2 points3 points ago*

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Another idea to add to the wishlist: Disemvoweling It would be a lovely feature.

[–]E_lucas 4 points5 points ago

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What about a system that allows you to give them warnings along with the temporary ban for a '3 strikes' type of build up to perma-ban.

[–]a_pound_of_blow 3 points4 points ago

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I like this idea a lot. It might cut down on the "so-and-so banned me from r/whatever" posts.

[–]AnnArchist 3 points4 points ago

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Can we get an option for a user preferences to 'ignore all temporary bans'?

[–]Dadasas 1 point2 points ago

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It sounds good, but I don't really like the limits.

[–]metaranha 1 point2 points ago

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I think this is a really good idea, and i'd like to see it expanded a bit. One thing i'd really like to see is a reason system behind banning.

I've really wanted to see something like this where a mod can include the purpose for a ban (both in this proposed system, and the regular ban system) and have it so that the user can also see the reason for the ban.

This would save me the headache of having to go through a complete explanation for banning someone when "you've been banned for spamming" would be totally sufficient.

[–]PastafarianTwit 1 point2 points ago

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I... I think I love you.

[–]DropkickMikey22 1 point2 points ago

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So Let it Be Written, So Let it Be Done

[–]CyberVillian 1 point2 points ago

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I like the idea. Maybe let people ba for up to 72? Also I think there should be a way in perm ban to also not notify and just perm mute the user too.

[–]maxpericulosus 1 point2 points ago

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't a banned user be able to just log out and see that his comments aren't showing up? I suppose he'd have to figure this out on accident, but still, it's an easy way to tell if you're being temp-banned.

[–]NonEuclideanVaginas 3 points4 points ago

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They'd probably notice the lack of downvotes.

[–]Brutos 1 point2 points ago

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I'd like to have a feature, to still see shadow banned users as a normal user, just like I can choose under comment options to not hide downvoted posts.

I fear that this feature has abuse potential for mods, so it needs some kind of transparency. Of course the default setting would be set to hide shadow banned users.

Granted that would make it potentially easy for shadow banned people to figure out that they are banned, although just logging out would provide the same.

[–]zagman76 1 point2 points ago

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vBulletin calls this feature "Tachy Goes to Coventry" and is a great tool for helping control the abusers. I think it is a wonderful feature!

[–]arcturussage 1 point2 points ago

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a user can receive a maximum of 3 temporary bans per month

3 per month no matter what subreddit or just within your subreddit? If it's only 3 for all of reddit that might be low if there is someone that likes to collect downvotes.

If it's only three times per month having more than 24 hours might be nice. Maybe up for 48 or 72.

As for the interface I like that for temp bans it says who temp banned them. It would be nice to have that information for Banned users as well. Who was banned, who banned them and when they were banned.

[–]bsimpson[S] 2 points3 points ago

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The limits are per subreddit

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points ago

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This would be great for subreddits mods wanting to discourage certain kinds of crap from being posted. How about give the moderators the option of showing users what post/comment a user made that got them banned, like the "User was banned for this post" stuff on SomethinAwful?

[–]aazav 1 point2 points ago

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As a poster who was recently trolled by StoneCypher, I look forwards to this capability.

[–]mmaluff 1 point2 points ago

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For extra realism you could make it so that the invisible comments get a downvote or two a few minutes after they're posted.

[–]mkosmo 1 point2 points ago

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Can we get the length longer than 24 hours? I'd personally like a few days of possible time to manually review a users posts if they're that bad. 24 hours may not be enough. I'm talking no more than 72 or 96 hours though.

[–]monkikuso 1 point2 points ago

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I like this idea a lot.

If I could also add, perhaps a feature that makes a user unable to post/n visible posts to your subreddit if the user has had X amount of temp. bans in a given length of time from any other subreddit.

I feel this would be another layer of "protection", for lack of a better word, against people who are continuously doing things to get bans. Kind of like a behind-the-scenes way for subreddits/mods to be looking out for other subreddits/mods.

[–]Laurelai 1 point2 points ago

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I WANT YOUR BIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE CHILDREN NOW OMG THANK YOU

[–]Dirt_Bike_Zero 1 point2 points ago

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I first thought is that it is good because it allows the user to continue posting and "digging their own hole" - building a stronger case possibly.

[–]gigitrix 1 point2 points ago

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As a mere user I support this.

[–]neggbird 1 point2 points ago

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Make temp bans last up to a month. One day is nothing, one hour even more so nothing.

[–]Shade00a00 1 point2 points ago

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I think we need to allow up to 1 week of banned time per month. Once they reach that, mods should decide whether to ban permanently, but a 1 week ban ought to be enough to deal with anyone who tends to post trollish content, and let them cool down from their post streak.

Once everyone ignores you for a week, you're good, I'd say.

[–]mayonesa 1 point2 points ago

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How about this:

Allow me to ban users who constantly downvote our content. We have a gang of 4-12 people who are attempting to destroy the subreddit by downvoting quality articles and upvoting submissions by spammers.

We should consider: should moderators be able to see how users have voted?

In any case, please don't let banned users continue to upvote/downvote. Cut them out of the process entirely.

[–]rockon4life45 1 point2 points ago

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May I suggest up to 72 hours? Sometimes trolls will stop trolling if nobody responds for 3 days.

[–]ravia 1 point2 points ago*

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Banning without informing the person banned is pretty well obviously wrong. Some "spammers" seem to require that but then some subs have substantial problems in which the bans are ostensibly due simply to controversial opinions. The obvious violence, and frankly I'm not sure what else to all it, of just straight out lying to the commenter by banning without disclosing this to them should give one pause, it seems to me. This opinion is quite opposed to the poster's proposal. Will that get me banned on here for having this opinion? I wouldn't know, of course, as the kind of ban being proposed wouldn't have to disclose that to me. Why this is not seen as obviously wrong I have no idea, but I think it is pretty well a contemptible practice and find its proposal itself quite offensive and destructive. It sucks that there are spammers. Some would say that it sucks that some have opinions that differ from ours. But that is not a good solution.

[–]avengingturnip 1 point2 points ago

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A temporary ban that lasts no more than a day will be of limited use. A ban lasting for several days, perhaps up to a week would be necessary to deal with intermittent trolling.

[–]Rollout 1 point2 points ago

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I have been asking for a sort of "shadow-ban" for a user from a subreddit for a long time.

This would be awesome, but it needs to have adjustable time, from one day to infinity.... Or just be permanent, and the mod has to lift it if they see fit.

Most of the time, in my finding, if I am going to use this feature it is because the user needs to be gone, not just for a few days.

[–]mattryanharris 1 point2 points ago

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Great idea! Thanks!

[–]Laurelai 1 point2 points ago

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when will this feature be available?

[–]Laurelai 1 point2 points ago

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There should be no limit to either amount or time, a coordinated attack (and this does happen frequently) by many people will overwhelm this ability quickly, abusive mods will abuse no matter what tools they have or don't have, the people in the sub will notice and just create a new one like with what happened with /r/trees, so if mods abuse the new ability they are abusive anyways and likely abused their power before, and if the community doesn't have a problem before with their style of moderation then its not likely they will have a problem after it. Its not tools that make mods abusive, its being an abusive fuck that does it.

[–]happybadger 2 points3 points ago

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Seems kind of redundant. We can already message people who are unknowingly breaking the rules, and anyone doing it out of malice isn't going to stop because we put them on time-out for a day (even permabans are circumvented by taking thirty seconds to make a second account).

Personally, I'd prefer a ghost ban function. /r/TodayIlearned had a spammer posting for a few days who would switch between gibberish-name accounts whenever we confronted him. If he thought his post was getting through but in reality he's ghost banned, there's no reason to switch accounts. It'd also cut trolling a bit, as trolls would figure that they're just terrible at it.

[–]Stereo 3 points4 points ago

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I'd prefer a ghost ban function

Definitely. A ban is far more effective if you can't easily tell when you have to circumvent it.

[–]The3rdWorld 2 points3 points ago

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but that's not true, running two or twenty accounts through RES is simple; ninja bans are so common now that any serious trolls know to check that his post appears in NEW from another account - many sites have scripts that will check you're not being permabanned, no doubt a reddit one would take seconds to knock up and circulate widely.

People that aren't trolls or spammers (those with differing opinions to the mod for example) may waste their time posting, realise that their posts didn't get through or were ignored and simply loose interest in the site.

Mods will misuse this power, heh they misuse flare ffs!

[–]Stereo 1 point2 points ago

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Yeah, but I'm sure there's an audience between the casual spammer who'll give up and the dedicated troll who will create dozens of accounts before breakfast. What are these ninja bans of which you talk?

[–]The3rdWorld 1 point2 points ago

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sorry, a ninja ban is a 'stealth ban' or 'shadow ban' like is being proposed here where the user doesn't know his posts aren't appearing.

[–]Stereo 1 point2 points ago

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Oh, I thought you meant they were common on reddit. We do have a ninja system in the spam filter, when you think of it.

[–]Antidote 2 points3 points ago

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Eh... silent bans aren't really helpful. A good ban message with "You have been temp banned" is far more effective because then the user actually knows that they did something wrong rather than just believing there's some bug with reddit and that's why their posts aren't showing up. Additionally 1 to 24 hours is not a good set of intervals. We need to be able to ban from 1 hour to about a week. Really there shouldn't be any limitations on it.

Also what's the purpose on the limit of temp bans per month?

[–]apostrotastrophe 2 points3 points ago

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The silent ban seems like the greatest idea I've ever heard. Knowing they did something wrong is certainly not going to stop the people who post things like "you're such a cunt go kill yourself stupid cunt". I'm pretty sure they already know that's disapproved of. It would be delightfully frustrating for them to get no response, no downvotes, no haughty replies... and even if they knew the silent ban exists, they'd never be sure if and when it was happening to them.

[–]Antidote 1 point2 points ago

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Why not both options?

[–]safiire 1 point2 points ago*

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They do see their posts show up, but no one else does.

I implemented this feature on my custom forum a few years ago and it is a great way to keep people from just showing up on a different account or IP and continuing to break your rules.

Edit: I found it was important that other mods have an indicator on the post so that they see what's happening and don't take action and actually ban them too.

[–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 1 point2 points ago*

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What incentives do mods have not to abuse this feature?

If it's really about illegal content, then limit the ban to once per user and 12h. This should give the admins enough time to hand out a permanent ban. In case the admins refuse to hand out the permanent ban, automatically re-approve all banned posts and comments and inform the user about what happened. This should keep rouge mods in check.

[–]slapchopsuey 5 points6 points ago

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I share your concern about moderator abuse regarding this proposed feature (but not your general anti-moderation view).

For accountability, I'd propose the following:

  • An interface where the mod doing the shadowbanning has a box to include a short comment why, with link(s) to the offending content.

  • The information would then be auto-submitted as a self-post to a subreddit somewhat like /reportthespammers (/reviewthebans or something), but stripped of all usernames, mod names, and subreddit names, for review by users or mods of the ban-policing subreddit. It would be wise to have the mods of that subreddit be the admins, with perhaps a few mods they trust to handle reported comments there and general upkeep.

  • If any are clearly wrongly shadowbanned, that can be upvoted or flagged somehow for an admin to look at it, or it can just be done how they do /RTS, either way.

  • It wouldn't take much for the admin handling the banning/unbanning to have the bans they had to overturn feed into a spreadsheet, which would show clearly who the problem mods are, free of the torches and pitchforks. A warning directly from the admin to the problem mod that they clean up their banning-abuse act else they be banned should be effective; this could even be set up to auto-submit once a mod had to be overturned more than a certain number of times.

With this system, there is accountability and a paper trail, but without the ticking clock for the admins who already have plenty to do and can't be expected to adhere to a 12 hour window for this activity. The filtering done by non-admin users within the /reportthebans would have to reduce the number of highly questionable bans the admins should look at to a manageable volume. That's the only way this exercise would be worthwhile from the admins POV.

I do agree with the idea of all bans being temporary (where they're auto-unbanned), where to renew the ban requires the mod reentering the reason why and the links to offending content (perhaps with a requirement that the link be different than the previously submitted one). The inconvenience factor built into this for mods, and the proposed accountability in the form of a subreddit described above would IMO keep trouble to a minimum.

[–]the_real_misogynist 1 point2 points ago

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Doesn't seem very effective, honestly. We catch on to these temp bans pretty fast, usually within 5-30 mins.

What happens after we reach the maximum of 3? Do we get our accounts banned forcing us to create more shills?

[–]ThisIsYourPenis 3 points4 points ago

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B&

[–]the_real_misogynist 2 points3 points ago

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Game over man!

[–]ThisIsYourPenis 4 points5 points ago

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reB&

[–]ChaosMotor 1 point2 points ago

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Silently silenced? Shadowbanned? No, I don't like it.

[–]db2 0 points1 point ago

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reddit has had shadowbans for years and it's still here and growing.

[–]AnnArchist 0 points1 point ago

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Not a fan of the concept myself.

Then again, I don't ban people in the subreddits I moderate.

The interface is clean though.

[–]nthitz 0 points1 point ago

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Cool feature! Why such arbitrary limitations though?

[–]skifrk29 0 points1 point ago

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I like it. It's clean, friendly, and could be really helpful in certain areas. Good idea.

[–]ahintoflime 0 points1 point ago

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Clever thinking, that will definitely be a lot more effective, at least until people start catching on.

[–]DarkSideofOZ 0 points1 point ago

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Me Gusta

[–]IronChin 0 points1 point ago

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Do it.

[–]qadm 0 points1 point ago

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Edit: I didn't read the whole post. Great feature!

[–]Complex- 0 points1 point ago

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so after 3 temporary bans they are permaban?

[–]E_lucas 1 point2 points ago

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I don't believe that's a feature, but you can do it yourself. Just remember to permaban after 3.

[–]Stereo 0 points1 point ago

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While you're in that part of the code, it would be great to show who banned test4, and when. If it's not too much to ask, a comment field for bans would also be nice.

[–]calisoca 0 points1 point ago

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I like it, but it'd be nice if they received some sort of notification. Without notification, it seems sort of like grounding a kid to his room for the weekend when that room has an Xbox, Playstation, TV, etc.

[–]sync0pate 0 points1 point ago

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Like it. Definitely seconding the call for it to last longer, a week or so at least I'd say..

[–]nowned 0 points1 point ago

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Fantastic idea, would be very helpful

[–]randomb0y 0 points1 point ago

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I don't know why a perma-ban would tip off the user either ...

[–]V2Blast 0 points1 point ago

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...Because it automatically tells the user "You have been banned from [subreddit]."

[–]icedevil6 0 points1 point ago

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I love the idea, but would prefer a window of 1 to 72 hours.

[–]dumbassthenes[!] 0 points1 point ago

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Sure, why not?

R/surfing is pretty free of trolls anyway, so it's not a big deal either way.

[–]geekjive 0 points1 point ago

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for subreddits with consistent multiple-account trolling problems, this can be very useful. please implement!

[–]bluerasberry 0 points1 point ago

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Seems cool as is. Implement it and call for more feedback later.

[–]Damaband41 0 points1 point ago

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Interesting... I'll report back if I have a Troll Uprising any time soon.

[–]bluequail 0 points1 point ago

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I am all for it.

[–]ninjaface 0 points1 point ago

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I like this.

[–]potentialloser 0 points1 point ago

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All for it!

[–]mattsatwork 0 points1 point ago

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This would be great

[–]dredd 0 points1 point ago

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Thumbs up!

[–]Yandere 0 points1 point ago

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Perhaps have it so if they make any comments/posts they receive fake votes, to further preserve the illusion of not being banned.

Highly active trolls that intentionally try to net a lot of down votes might get suspicious when they suddenly get no down votes from a given reddit.

Edit: I also mean that, by fake, these would not be reflected in their user profiles. I think that just showing they have -X points when they go to check a post or comment would suffice. Plus this wouldn't affect the karma system, just further try to fake the banned redditor out.

[–]sevenalive 0 points1 point ago

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Sweet. While you are at it. Can you please code a feature to force the display of flair in a subreddit, so the user can't turn it off?

On r/playitforward, we use it to keep track of games gave and received. r/gameswap could also use flair instead of CSS for their system too.

I hid the checkbox in the stylesheet, but that doesn't do anything to stop it.

Also would like a way to export/import flair to csv for backup purposes.

[–]V2Blast 0 points1 point ago

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I think you can still do it in the CSS as it was done before flair was implemented - in which case it's auto-displayed for anyone who allows CSS.

[–]Laurelai 0 points1 point ago

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There should be no limit to either amount or time, a coordinated attack (and this does happen frequently) by many people will overwhelm this ability quickly, abusive mods will abuse no matter what tools they have or don't have, the people in the sub will notice and just create a new one like with what happened with /r/trees, so if mods abuse the new ability they are abusive anyways and likely abused their power before, and if the community doesn't have a problem before with their style of moderation then its not likely they will have a problem after it. Its not tools that make mods abusive, its being an abusive fuck that does it.

[–]DjMeztoome 0 points1 point ago*

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This is an awesome feature...Sometimes a Minor in Solipsism can backfire drastically.

  • This has potential to redditate a redditor into redditing his orangeRed envelope even more Red.

  • Maybe a time Factor in there somewhere...Like Mods get to choose the 3 different time lengths..or maybe the 4th?

[–]aukxsona 0 points1 point ago

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I say 1-7 days.

[–]Mike941 0 points1 point ago

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I run a subreddit for WC3. WC3 has a lot of hackers and these hackers like to go to legitimate WC3 websites and flame us by posting their exploits and acting like they're legitimate players. If you ban them they usually just make another account.

So this secret ban would be really useful for my reddit. So far it's been small enough to avoid being noticed by the hackers but i think hackers just started to notice it.

So when will this secret ban be available?

[–]Clayburn 0 points1 point ago

Is this in effect? I can't seem to post anything to /r/television. The mods also do not reply to me. I don't get any errors. But I don't know why I'd be banned. I rarely post to /r/television at all because TV mostly sucks. I usually use show-specific subreddits.

So, what should I do? How do I find out if this is what's happening? Also, I tried using a throwaway to submit, and same thing. Doesn't show up in /new and no response from mods.

[–]Twitchxiii 0 points1 point ago

Add this an possibly limited bans such as character caps in comments added to limit banned users and maybe only so many commets a day? Just suggestion

[–]meatspace 0 points1 point ago

It's kind of dishonest to ban people and not let them know...

[–]nicholaaaas 0 points1 point ago

If they aren't told they did wrong why will they stop when the period is over?

[–]over8000 0 points1 point ago

maybe instead of not telling him, it alerts him how long the ban will be in place [edit] thus not encouraging them to make and use a second account for access. and possibly you could base the limit on hours not the amount of times it has happened?